# Game of Thrones 3.08 "Second Sons" 5/19/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757 "2013-05-19T20:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/101 "2013-05-21T13:38:10Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > … > But didn’t her and Tywin agree last episode that Loras will join the Kingsguard instead of marrying Cersei? 😕 > … He threatened to write up papers “drafting” Loras into the Kingsguard if she didn’t go along with the wedding. She finally signalled her capitulation by taking his pen and snapping it in half. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/102 "2013-05-21T13:41:07Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > …I loved her trying to make sense of what their family tree will look like. But didn’t her and Tywin agree last episode that Loras will join the Kingsguard instead of marrying Cersei? 😕 No. Tywin _threatened_ to force Loras to join the Kingsguard if Loras didn’t marry Cersei. Olenna subsequently consented to the marriage by taking Tywin’s quill (that he was ready to write the order) and breaking it in half. ETA: Ninjaed! (Too slow typing on the iPad.) ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/103 "2013-05-21T13:57:31Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > He threatened to write up papers “drafting” Loras into the Kingsguard if she didn’t go along with the wedding. She finally signalled her capitulation by taking his pen and snapping it in half. I wasn’t watching closely and completely misunderstood the significance of snapping hte pen in half. Thanks for setting me straight. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/104 "2013-05-21T14:20:15Z")
Good point about the White Walkers and zombiefication. How DO they zombify? Obviously, GoT needs more exposition … call out the naked whores! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/105 "2013-05-21T14:25:45Z")
Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding reminded me a bit of Claudius’s first wedding in _I, CLAUDIUS_. ([Miniseries clip](http://youtu.be/VM3eYwLCaZo?t=2m5s).) And can anybody imagine better casting for either Tyrion or Joffrey? You’d think the characters were written for them. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/106 "2013-05-21T16:26:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > But didn’t her and Tywin agree last episode that Loras will join the Kingsguard instead of marrying Cersei? 😕 No. Tywin threatened to name Loras to the Kingsguard if the Tullys continued with their power grab of marrying Sansa off to him. Kingsguard renounce titles and inheritances so the Tullys would be cut off from having a male heir. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/107 "2013-05-21T16:27:22Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > No. Tywin threatened to name Loras to the Kingsguard if the Tullys continued with their power grab of marrying Sansa off to him. Kingsguard renounce titles and inheritances so the Tullys would be cut off from having a male heir. Not the Tullys, the Tyrells. The Tullys are Catlyn’s family. (Blackfish and that guy who’s about to get married) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/108 "2013-05-21T16:29:00Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Not the Tullys, the Tyrells. The Tullys are Catlyn’s family. (Blackfish and that guy who’s about to get married) Damn! I keep doing that. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/109 "2013-05-21T17:22:01Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Damn! I keep doing that. Thank you. It’s hard to keep up, there are so many similar names. I didn’t mean to seem pedantic, by the way; I just didn’t want it to confuse someone else. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/110 "2013-05-21T17:55:51Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It’s hard to keep up, there are so many similar names. I didn’t mean to seem pedantic, by the way; I just didn’t want it to confuse someone else. That’s what all the pedants say 😉 (totally just kidding - I never keep the players straight and appreciate all clarifications in these threads…) ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/111 "2013-05-21T18:16:26Z")
Theory about Joffrey: Yes, he’s still a virgin. We’ve seen two occasions where someone has sent him whores and he seems to get off only by abusing and killing them. When you consider his vitriol when Cersei brought up homosexuality in a previous episode, I think the show is trying to setup Joffrey as a severely closeted and self-hating homosexual who is unable to be aroused by women and thus only finds pleasure in cruelty and abuse. Joffrey is like those anti-gay crusaders in the religious right who are suddenly found to have secret gay lovers. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/112 "2013-05-21T18:29:26Z")
Was the White Walker killed by Sam a significant one? He was the one on horseback that seemed to be leading the march from the last episode of S2, correct? Do they even have a leader or ranks? Or are there a bunch that look like him? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/113 "2013-05-21T18:39:41Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Was the White Walker killed by Sam a significant one? He was the one on horseback that seemed to be leading the march from the last episode of S2, correct? Not sure. Not to sound racist or anything, but these people all look alike to me :p. And now for something completely different : Charles Dance (who plays Tywin Lannister) giving a [dramatic reading of 50 Shades of Grey](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3POYx6IeeI). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/114 "2013-05-21T18:39:44Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Theory about Joffrey: > > Yes, he’s still a virgin. We’ve seen two occasions where someone has sent him whores and he seems to get off only by abusing and killing them. > > When you consider his vitriol when Cersei brought up homosexuality in a previous episode, I think the show is trying to setup Joffrey as a severely closeted and self-hating homosexual who is unable to be aroused by women and thus only finds pleasure in cruelty and abuse. > > Joffrey is like those anti-gay crusaders in the religious right who are suddenly found to have secret gay lovers. I kept hoping his grandfather would send him to The Wall, he’d get lost on a mission due to refusing to follow orders, and he’d end up as a Mrs. Craster, but alas, a mutiny ended his chances. I wonder if his blood would work in Melisandre’s spell. On the one hand, he’s not a son of Robert Barratheon or any other king (except legally), but on the other hand he _is_ a king in his own right. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/115 "2013-05-21T19:02:38Z")
Did anybody else find Daario Naharis not altogether unpleasant to look at? Though as with Orlando Bloom it’s amazing how much difference a long blonde wig can make ([hairless Daario](https://www.google.com/search?q=ed+skrein&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=XsSbUeGaCYWC9gSiw4HQAw&biw=1536&bih=746&sei=ZsSbUczOAofm8wSvzAE)). And of course the view was obstructed by gratuitous Emilia Clarke nudity. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/116 "2013-05-21T19:03:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I think being turned into a wight might just be a “natural” by-product of dying in the far North now that magic is coming back. Or possibly in an area X miles around a Walker ? Or maybe the Walkers can just cast Raise Dead on any dead body they find, which would make some sense : some of the wights in the big army back in season 2 looked pretty ripe. My take is that they kill people with conventional means, and then either proximity to or a ritual by the WWs raises them. I think of them as Romero zombies and not Rage virus; infection isn’t needed, just death by some means. Mostly speculation. Also, in S1E1, it takes them some time to wake up. Unless they were “faking it” (and can control eye color willingly?). [/QUOTE] I am pretty certain that wights are a completely different creature than white walkers. It has been suggested, e.g. at Craster’s and by Sam, that they convert living human babies, but that’s mostly speculated now. He did seem to aim for Gilly’s baby though, but it may also be like the S2 finale, where a WW correctly ascertained that Sam wasn’t a threat. Or incorrectly this time. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I kept hoping his grandfather would send him to The Wall, he’d get lost on a mission due to refusing to follow orders, and he’d end up as a Mrs. Craster, but alas, a mutiny ended his chances. Joffrey and Craster!? Eww! Gross! Craster thinks that’s unnatural! And to think, you’d pair him with someone _outside the family_!? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/117 "2013-05-21T19:13:50Z")
I’m conflicted about that “leaving the knife” scene. If he just has it next episode I’ll be irritated with the lack of scene detail but happy that he has it. If he doesn’t I’ll be happy with the attention to scene detail but irritated that he doesn’t have it. I’m also really surprised at how easily Daario got that close to Dany. Where were Jorah and Selmy and / or the slave guards? How did he sneak past them? What about the dragons? You’d think she’d have one sitting around just to heat the tub for her. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/118 "2013-05-21T19:15:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I kept hoping his grandfather would send him to The Wall, he’d get lost on a mission due to refusing to follow orders, and he’d end up as a Mrs. Craster, but alas, a mutiny ended his chances. > > I wonder if his blood would work in Melisandre’s spell. On the one hand, he’s not a son of Robert Barratheon or any other king (except legally), but on the other hand he _is_ a king in his own right. Stannis says he’s a usurper. But my thing is… if the blood of a king is magical or whatever, what qualifies you for king? Obviously Joffrey doesn’t qualify (according to Stannis and Melisandre) (although I could be wrong, and so could she, because she doesn’t know as much about the Lord of Light as she thinks, given how surprised she was by the guy who keeps getting raised from the dead) even though he’s sitting on the throne and all. But why does Robert count? Robert took the throne by force, how is that any different, really, than Joffrey’s position? It seems like as far as magic blood would go, only the Targareons have it. Also, (and I have not read the books, nor has my friend) a friend I watch GOT with believes STRONGLY that Gendry is not a bastard; she believes his mother is Cersei and that Gendry is the dark-haired son Cersei spoke of that she claimed died. Her evidence is that Gendry remember his mother having blond hair. I’m a bit more doubtful, but I don’t have any evidence or anything. Anyhoo, what do you guys think? Plausible? And if he _was_ Cersei’s son, that would obviously make him the rightful king. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/119 "2013-05-21T19:18:20Z")
Also, I don’t know what the White Walkers are doing with those babies, but I don’t think it’s eating them. I think it’s going to be something weirder. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/120 "2013-05-21T19:25:07Z")
Of course all we know for absolute certain about Gendry’s blood is that leeches who drink it will pop if put on a fire, but that’s not a whole lot different from anybody else’s blood. The first one put on Joe Dempsie’s chest did move. I wonder if they used real leeches (which are icky but harmless if only there for a moment) or if they were CGI. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Also, I don’t know what the White Walkers are doing with those babies, but I don’t think it’s eating them. I think it’s going to be something weirder. My WAG is it’s how they reproduce. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=7)