# Game of Thrones 3.08 "Second Sons" 5/19/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757 "2013-05-19T20:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/161 "2013-05-23T13:51:30Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > …the continent Dany’s on… **Essos**. And it really should be Easteros, especially since it actually is to the east of Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/162 "2013-05-23T14:18:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When it comes right down to it, Americans refuse to mourn on a public level after a certain amount of time has passed, say, 150 years (Memorial Day) or 90 years (Veterans Day). If 150 years would pass without any soldiers getting killed, we’d celebrate too. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/163 "2013-05-23T14:44:45Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > **Essos**. > > And it really should be Easteros, especially since it actually is to the east of Westeros. Would there be no middleros? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/164 "2013-05-23T14:45:39Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I just loved Joffrey’s little extra fuck you of stealing the little stepladder. It weirdly makes his character more believable that he’s monstrously sadistic on the big things, but doesn’t leave out the little details. Yeah, I loved that too. He’s a full-service douchebag. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Ha, thanks for reminding me of Lady Oleanna’s scene, “idly” puzzling out the implications of marrying brother and sister to mother and son in terms of loops in the family tree - such a wonderful little bit of trolling 🙂 Great scene. She seemed to relish the complicatedly unpleasant genealogy she was helping to craft. > [@Shakester](#): > > His name is **Joffrey**. > > The name _Geoffrey_ is pronounced _Jeffrey_, and my assumption is that George RR Martin decided to use the name Joffrey as a joke on people who phonetically mispronounce the name Geoffrey. Maybe Martin’s just hinting that the young man would be a lot better-adjusted person if he could go with his first love, modern dance: [http://www.joffrey.com/](http://www.joffrey.com/) > [@solost](#): > > When the leech-burning scene cut immediately to the scene of Joffrey at the wedding. I was expecting him to start choking on a grape or generally wince in pain, or something. Guess it’s not a fast-acting curse… I wondered that, too. The editing couldn’t have been a coincidence. > [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Theory about Joffrey: > > Yes, he’s still a virgin. We’ve seen two occasions where someone has sent him whores and he seems to get off only by abusing and killing them. > > When you consider his vitriol when Cersei brought up homosexuality in a previous episode, I think the show is trying to setup Joffrey as a severely closeted and self-hating homosexual who is unable to be aroused by women and thus only finds pleasure in cruelty and abuse. > > Joffrey is like those anti-gay crusaders in the religious right who are suddenly found to have secret gay lovers. Wow - that’s a great theory. I think there may be something to it. > [@Sampiro](#): > > …I wonder if [Joffrey’s] blood would work in Melisandre’s spell. On the one hand, he’s not a son of Robert Barratheon or any other king (except legally), but on the other hand he _is_ a king in his own right. He’s also the son of a queen. Regardless of who’s his daddy, he’s got royal blood that the Red Priestess might find useful. > [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > [Game of Thrones Facebook Recap, Season 3, Episode 8.](http://www.happyplace.com/24039/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-8) Heh. “…checked into an Authentic Rustic Death Trap.” ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/165 "2013-05-23T14:52:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > When it comes right down to it, Americans refuse to mourn on a public level after a certain amount of time has passed, say, 150 years (Memorial Day) or 90 years (Veterans Day). If Sept. 11 were to become one of the standard public holidays, I’m sure that eventually it too will cease to be primarily about mourning. > [@Alessan](#): > > If 150 years would pass without any soldiers getting killed, we’d celebrate too. I don’t quite follow either of these statements. It’s not like Memorial Day or Veterans Day only honor combatants from the Civil War and WWI respectively. There is nothing wrong with partying on Memorial Day. Think of it like a wake. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/166 "2013-05-23T15:52:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I wondered that, too. The editing couldn’t have been a coincidence. Maybe I’ve just started noticing it, or maybe they’ve changed something up, but usually whenever one character mentions one in another location, it cuts to that character. So if they’re in King’s Landing and they mention Dany, the next scene will cut right to her. > [@](#): > > He’s also the son of a queen. Regardless of who’s his daddy, he’s got royal blood that the Red Priestess might find useful. Just a queen by marriage. I think she’s more interested in Baratheon blood, not just the blood of someone who happens to be named king. Crazy theory: Maybe the Cult of Light is behind pushing Robert to rebel and become king. She talked about how there’s some great darkness coming and they tried to get Robert to convert. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/167 "2013-05-23T18:17:55Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Maybe I’ve just started noticing it, or maybe they’ve changed something up, but usually whenever one character mentions one in another location, it cuts to that character. So if they’re in King’s Landing and they mention Dany, the next scene will cut right to her. This show, and many other premium channel shows that have the “previously on…” parts do this. As in, “that character or that dagger didn’t seem important before? Why are they mentioning it now… ohhh!” Kind of bad sometimes in Dexter and such when it points out the minor one line character from the previous season is now important (and likely evil). Maybe Robert’s blood is better because he’s the rightful king by might, whereas Joffrey is by right of who his daddy was, or in this case, wasn’t. Or maybe because of post #139. Also, the blood of a well-guarded king is probably harder to get than an apprentice blacksmith’s. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/168 "2013-05-23T21:48:37Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Would there be no middleros? We used to see a lot of middle of Ros until that whole unpleasantness with a psyco and a crossbow. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/169 "2013-05-23T22:11:08Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > This show, and many other premium channel shows that have the “previously on…” parts do this. As in, “that character or that dagger didn’t seem important before? Why are they mentioning it now… ohhh!” Kind of bad sometimes in Dexter and such when it points out the minor one line character from the previous season is now important (and likely evil). I’m not talking about the “previously on” but during the actual episode. So Tywin and Joffrey talk about dragons, and the next scene is of Dany. Catelyn talks about Jon Snow, and the next scene is of him. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/170 "2013-05-24T00:57:04Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > **Essos**. > > And it really should be Easteros, especially since it actually is to the east of Westeros. Do not get me started on Our Creator as an etymologist/philologist/linguist. Westeros is really huge; any earthly area that size would have more than one language group & a handful of languages. Dothrakese (?) & Valyrian are the only “different” languages–we’ve learned about them thanks to the producers. Then there are the names “sort of” like English but not quite: Robb, Eddard, etc. And Jaime–hey, he doesn’t look Mexican. Oh, it’s pronounced “Jamie.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/171 "2013-05-24T01:24:31Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Do not get me started on Our Creator as an etymologist/philologist/linguist. Westeros is really huge; any earthly area that size would have more than one language group & a handful of languages. Dothrakese (?) & Valyrian are the only “different” languages–we’ve learned about them thanks to the producers. > > Then there are the names “sort of” like English but not quite: Robb, Eddard, etc. And Jaime–hey, he doesn’t look Mexican. Oh, it’s pronounced “Jamie.” The names don’t bother me (not sure why they bother you), but the size of the world aggravates me as well, for the reason you named. I am not confident that travel times are consistent with what is said about the size of the world, either, though no particular examples come to mind. I also wonder about the plausibility of this empire’s size as compared to its tech level, though I am not sure about this, as the Roman Empire and Mongolian Empires may have been comparable sizewise (I’m not sure). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/172 "2013-05-24T01:34:02Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Then there are the names “sort of” like English but not quite: Robb, Eddard, etc. And Jaime–hey, he doesn’t look Mexican. Oh, it’s pronounced “Jamie.” His brother Tyrone doesn’t look black either. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/173 "2013-05-24T01:41:45Z")
I agree, the travel times make it seem like the whole continent isn’t much bigger than Great Britain. The official size seems way too big. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/174 "2013-05-24T01:56:06Z")
Are there any specific instances that make it incongruous? As I recall it took months for the royal party to travel from Kings Landing to Winterfell and back. The swift travel seems to be by ship. In most cars there isn’t a lot of specificity regarding times and distances. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/175 "2013-05-24T02:17:34Z")
Well, they make travel between places not seem like that big a hassle. Everyone is constantly going between King’s landing, and winterfell, and the wall. With medieval transport, those would be once in a lifetime epic journies where you’d expect a lot of your people to die, but it seems to be going down the street for our characters. The distance between Winterfell and King’s landing is what, about 1500-2000 miles? By horse. That’s quite a trip. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/176 "2013-05-24T02:19:50Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Would there be no middleros? Down south there is Underoos ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/177 "2013-05-24T02:25:04Z")
Well remember that focus of the story is on the kind of people who do have the means or determination to travel – nobles, merchants, and armies. The vast majority of the people of both continents rarely travel far beyond their own homes. When it comes to commerce and war and things like that, ships and horses and camels can take you pretty damned far. In the middle ages, there was a steady stream of commerce from Europe to China. Even in the stone ages, determined people could travel far. The great migrations of races of people happened on foot and horseback. Pre-industrial whaling fleets made the world more globalised in the 19th century than it is even now. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/178 "2013-05-24T03:03:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > …In most cars there isn’t a lot of specificity regarding times and distances. You can get a clock and odometer standard these days. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/179 "2013-05-24T03:22:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well remember that focus of the story is on the kind of people who do have the means or determination to travel – nobles, merchants, and armies. The vast majority of the people of both continents rarely travel far beyond their own homes. When it comes to commerce and war and things like that, ships and horses and camels can take you pretty damned far. In the middle ages, there was a steady stream of commerce from Europe to China. Even in the stone ages, determined people could travel far. The great migrations of races of people happened on foot and horseback. Pre-industrial whaling fleets made the world more globalised in the 19th century than it is even now. I didn’t really get the idea that Westeros was as big as the books apparently made it out to be if Ros can just hop on the back of a turnip cart and end up at King’s Landing in less than 1 year’s time. Just the same, I wouldn’t expect many 15th century whores jumping onto caravans in Venice just to see if they could try their luck in Cathay (unless I completely missed the point of the Marco Polo stories). Not just Ros but every person travelling simply just hoofs it without any provisions. Arya. Jaime/Brienne. They don’t even have horses. Walking upwards of 1500 miles on foot without any rations would take years. Decades even. Plus this massive land area is supposed to be carved up by… 15? 20 clans? It seems to be Great-Britain-y in size at best. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757/180 "2013-05-24T06:49:55Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Not just Ros but every person travelling simply just hoofs it without any provisions. Arya. Jaime/Brienne. They don’t even have horses. Walking upwards of 1500 miles on foot without any rations would take years. Decades even. You’re making things sound more dire than they were. For example, I just checked the distance between Paris and Santiago de Compostela : it’s about 900 miles, and was a pretty popular pilgrimage back in the day. Still is, in fact - I know a woman who hoofed the Spanish leg of the trip over her holidays. It was a dangerous trip (not so much because of the weather, but because bandits naturally preyed on pilgrims) but it certainly didn’t take decades. As for the lack of rations, well, one expect there are lots of inns and taverns along the way, and an enterprising whore presumably has little need for cash on hand if you follow my meaning :). As for nobles, prospective Crows, messengers and so forth, they can probably rely on the hospitality of other nobles along the way, it was a pretty big thing back then. > [@](#): > > Plus this massive land area is supposed to be carved up by… 15? 20 clans? It seems to be Great-Britain-y in size at best. I think it’s more like the 7 Kingdoms are each a European nation in scope, political division and differing culture, so you’ve got the big families on top, and countless little lords each holding a city or five. I’m more puzzled by the scope of the armies involved : Robb is said to have 20.000 men, that is a _massive_ force by medieval standards and yet they make it sound like it’s a pitiful band without much hope of achieving anything. By comparison, the force that seized Jerusalem (the first time around, anyway) was half that size, it was an epic siege by the standards of these times, and an army made up of soldiers hailing from the four corners of Christendom. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-08-second-sons-5-19-13-no-book-spoilers/658757.md?page=10)