# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/181 "2013-06-03T19:43:47Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > What? You think he would pull a stunt like this if he didn’t think it would make him _the_ Lord, or close to it, of the North? It would make him possibly the most dangerous and untrustworthy Lord, perhaps. I doubt that he won anyone’s hearts or minds, though. The people of the North who were loyal to the Starks would see Bolton as a treasonous traitor of treachery. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/182 "2013-06-03T19:46:40Z")
Did you all notice the army piece on Robb’s map for Bolton’s force? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/183 "2013-06-03T19:49:48Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > There weren’t any in that scene, because it was off-screen. But there’s also no reason to believe that Roslyn was in the room when Catlyn and Frey came to that agreement - Frey clearly gets a lot of enjoyment out of making people squirm. Plus it’d be a good test of the man’s character : show the Starks only the fuglies, and if Robb sticks to his word anyway then he’s a dependable, trustworthy King and liege you can follow and reward with the purdy one. Everyone is happy ever after in the best of worlds. And if he reneges, well… you can power a large city from the heads asploding all over the interwebs, evidently :D. [QUOTE=Push You Down] Since we’re spending an awful lot of time talking about the lack or rule of law and the “guidelines” being meaningless… It seems that somone–like the last remaining male of ruling family–could forsake the oath with good reason. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I suppose, but then everyone else can wage war on him over being a deserter to the Watch on top of being a bastard, and the son of a renegade, and the brother of another renegade. That’s a lot of casus belli wrapped under a single mop of admittedly gorgeous hair. Might might still make right obviously, but it’s a long shot if’n you asking me. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/184 "2013-06-03T19:51:41Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Did you all notice the army piece on Robb’s map for Bolton’s force? Yup, but I didn’t pay attention to where it was though. It is kinda cool how he’s got pieces carved after every house sigil in his little Warhammer game. Stannis might still have the better gametable though. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/185 "2013-06-03T19:52:45Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > BUT, what was Frey’s whole giant butthurt deal all along? People look down on his family and no one will marry his kids. Can you imagine any noble house respecting him now? And NO ONE is ever going to betroth their child to a Frey because they wouldn’t dream of attending a wedding at the Twins! Hell, people won’t even visit, since they can’t rely on the hospitality tradition to protect them. Walder Frey joined an open rebellion against the throne and Tywin Lannister. Tywin Lannister has a song about him in which he murders every member of an opposing family. He risked everything he had in exchange for some respect and the chance that his grandson would be a king. Robb took both those things away. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/186 "2013-06-03T19:55:27Z")
I think this also settles the question of “who burnt down Winterfell?” It seems like Bolton has been gunning for the starks for some time now. The real question is why. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/187 "2013-06-03T19:56:06Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Did you all notice the army piece on Robb’s map for Bolton’s force? The Flayed Man? FYI, This was your 5,000th post. Did balloons and confetti drop from the ceiling after you hit Submit or anything? ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/188 "2013-06-03T19:56:26Z")
Regarding right of succession and all that; early on in the series Renly summed it up to Ned Stark: “This isn’t about the bloody line of succession!” The Targaryens didn’t get the kingdom by right of birth; even though Dany considers herself heir to the throne, she’s probably not counting on it being handed to her, judging by the gathering of soldiers and the occasional Trogdor-ing of people by her babies. I would think the only ones who really feel the need to follow rule of law are those who benefit the most from it, i.e, the ones already in power. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/189 "2013-06-03T20:09:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yup, but I didn’t pay attention to where it was though. > It is kinda cool how he’s got pieces carved after every house sigil in his little Warhammer game. Stannis might still have the better gametable though. The best board games come with a naked Carice Van Houten on top of them. Just realized we never got a scene where Robb realizes it’s Bolton that burned down Winterfell, that would’ve been interesting. At least I think that’s what happened, they never revisited it this season. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/190 "2013-06-03T20:15:21Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > It would make him possibly the most dangerous and untrustworthy Lord, perhaps. I doubt that he won anyone’s hearts or minds, though. The people of the North who were loyal to the Starks would see Bolton as a treasonous traitor of treachery. A treasonous traitor with a big army who, if his sigil is any indication, will skin you alive if you don’t do what you’re told. Or do you seriously think he doesn’t have any plans to secure his position in the North after betraying the Starks? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/191 "2013-06-03T20:19:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > There are only two other moments in television that shocked me anything close to this and they both pale. > > The Show:The Wire > The Spoiler: Omar getting shot and it was strange, because I think deep down we all knew Omar was not long for this world. But as the series rolled on we actually started to believe he was invincible. The series was apportioning its end and everybody liked Omar, so we got comfortable, complacent, maybe forgetting that he was in constant danger. And then the way he was killed, small kid just walks up and shoots him. It seemed so petty in a way, like Omar deserved a grander death and he was simply shot like any other gangster, in the street by somebody he didn’t even know. This is funny, but Some asshole spoiled Omar’s death for me about two years in advance (we watched catching up on DVDs), but I’d actually half-forgotten about it by the time it happened. So oddly I was still startled. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/192 "2013-06-03T20:23:43Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > A treasonous traitor with a big army who, if his sigil is any indication, will skin you alive if you don’t do what you’re told. Or do you seriously think he doesn’t have any plans to secure his position in the North after betraying the Starks? I’m not doubting that’s what he WANTS to do. But again, like Tyrion warned Cersei last season, it’s difficult (to say the least) to maintain rule over people that hate you and want you dead. If he thinks his big superior army is going to just crush everyone, he might be a bit frustrated and surprised if smaller groups of Northmen wage a war of guerrilla tactics against him. It’d be like trying to kill a swarm of bees with a bulldozer. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/193 "2013-06-03T20:30:23Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > … and the occasional Trogdor-ing of people by her babies. My husband has read the books, and I ask him in advance of every episode whether we’re going to see any “burninating of the countryside.” He usually doesn’t know, though, because he either conveniently forgets, or because I guess the books don’t follow the show _exactly_. (He claims to prefer the TV version because “the sex scenes are written better.”) ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/194 "2013-06-03T20:36:44Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I’m not doubting that’s what he WANTS to do. But again, like Tyrion warned Cersei last season, it’s difficult (to say the least) to maintain rule over people that hate you and want you dead. If he thinks his big superior army is going to just crush everyone, he might be a bit frustrated and surprised if smaller groups of Northmen wage a war of guerrilla tactics against him. It’d be like trying to kill a swarm of bees with a bulldozer. Sure, in the end he might not be able to actually control the North, but as long as he’s the guy with the largest actual army no one else is going to be the ruler of the North without Bolton’s consent either. Guerrilla tactics isn’t going to stop said army from burning your fields or tearing down your castle. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/195 "2013-06-03T20:43:09Z")
In which book does the Red Wedding occur? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/196 "2013-06-03T20:45:16Z")
Third book. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/197 "2013-06-03T20:53:46Z")
> [@RyJae](#): > > Personally I say we saw to much, Robb and his mom ☹ The Stark/Snow reunions all so close yet death kept them apart. I don’t know if I want to watch next week, the Starks were my favorite “family” and they are dying off. I’m getting the feeling that Sansa and Bran are not safe anymore, especially if Arya happens to be in the neighborhood. > [@tim-n-va](#): > > None yet mentioned. If the storyline with the white walkers and wildlings somehow make the wall and the watch obsolete, who knows what twists lurks in the mind of the author. > > For me my hopes for the episode (and any episode) depends on the warnings at the beginning. No nudity warning for this one. :mad: I knew when I saw the GV rating and no nudity warning…somebody important was gonna go down in style…but I didn’t know it was gonna be a Twofer. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/198 "2013-06-03T20:57:23Z")
[Awesome metal version of the Rains of Castamere](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=moZExve-AeQ#!) ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/199 "2013-06-03T21:01:04Z")
> [@rockle](#): > > My husband has read the books, and I ask him in advance of every episode whether we’re going to see any “burninating of the countryside.” He usually doesn’t know, though, because he either conveniently forgets, or because I guess the books don’t follow the show _exactly_. (He claims to prefer the TV version because “the sex scenes are written better.”) Also, believe it or not, the pacing of the TV series is a million times better than the books. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_Tightlips](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Joey\_Tightlips](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_Tightlips)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/200 "2013-06-03T21:10:28Z")
Did they show the groom after he got carried off for the bedding? Are we to presume he was murdered as well, or could he have been in on it? I know he was none too happy with Rob forcing him to marry against his will. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=11)