# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/241 "2013-06-04T00:58:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > As I said, none of this is definitive, biiy the case for this kind if succession is far stronger than it is for Salic succession. And as I said, I’m not trying to argue. You are obviously more familiar with the technicalities of Salic succession and/or male-preference primogeniture, but I’m not looking at it from a historical true-to-life perspective, I’m just looking at what we’ve been shown. Westeros is not medieval England, and we don’t have Martin’s writ on this. The rules of succession in the world of Westeros may or may not line up with the traditions of our history. And to bring this discursion full circle, I doubt anyone would argue Daenerys is not a threat to the Iron Throne at this point, and the rules of succession are entirely irrelevant to that threat. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/242 "2013-06-04T01:12:29Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > We heard Sam sing a lullaby about how the gods love the little children, and we heard Sansa sing a different hymn to calm the ladies down during the Battle of Blackwater. And also Shireen Baratheon’s creepy song. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/243 "2013-06-04T01:47:55Z")
Since we are posting reaction videos here is [Maisie Williams.](https://vine.co/v/b3XZMHmxzxh) ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/244 "2013-06-04T01:50:03Z")
So for anyone who thought last episode was the worst wedding ever, have you changed your mind? (It was so hard reading that over and over the last two weeks. “Worst wedding EVER!”) ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/245 "2013-06-04T02:23:48Z")
Is this still the “don’t mention the books at all” thread, or has that been changed? If that rule is still in effect, there are a couple people in this thread that need to be reminded of it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/246 "2013-06-04T03:35:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Frey had been a lifelong complete opportunist. It was mentioned in the first episode where he was seen that at the Battle of the Trident (where Robert Barratheon won the crown by defeating the last of the Targaryen armies) Frey’s men did not arrive until the battle was over, at which time they declared themselves loyal Barratheon subjects of course. It wasn’t just pride that would make him change sides. Not to mention that he is now presumably Lord Paramount of the Riberlands with Lord Brutus either dead or in a post coital haze. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/247 "2013-06-04T03:38:46Z")
I’m not sure Frey would kill lord dipshit. He lived up to his bargain with Frey, he’s not a Stark, and he’s his son in law. Plus it gives Frey’s grandson (or great grandson) lordship of riverrun. Yeah, in fact, it seems like it’d play right into Frey’s hands to allow him to live and hope he’s thankful enough for being spared and being delivered a hot wife to stay loyal. Incidentally, I always get irked by the morals of the stories involving this sort of thing, where beauty is the only factor in whether an arranged marriage is a reward or a punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/248 "2013-06-04T04:20:35Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m not sure Frey would kill lord dipshit. He lived up to his bargain with Frey, he’s not a Stark, and he’s his son in law. Plus it gives Frey’s grandson (or great grandson) lordship of riverrun. Yeah, in fact, it seems like it’d play right into Frey’s hands to allow him to live and hope he’s thankful enough for being spared and being delivered a hot wife to stay loyal. > > Incidentally, I always get irked by the morals of the stories involving this sort of thing, where beauty is the only factor in whether an arranged marriage is a reward or a punishment. yeah, Cersei’s a beauty but I an arranged marriage with her would only be a reward for Jamie. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/249 "2013-06-04T04:24:52Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Incidentally, I always get irked by the morals of the stories involving this sort of thing, where beauty is the only factor in whether an arranged marriage is a reward or a punishment. Yeah, there was an entirely different sort of punishment this time. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/250 "2013-06-04T04:33:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > yeah, Cersei’s a beauty but I an arranged marriage with her would only be a reward for Jamie. Well, as long as the Lannisters and Tyrells are on friendly/mutually-beneficial cooperation terms, being married to Cersei seems to be the perfect marriage for Loras. Sure, the marriage to Sansa would have benefited his \*family \*more, but on the relationship level, it wouldn’t have worked out well for either of them. With Cersei, they’ll both have no expectations from each other, and get to do whatever/\*whomever \*they want. (Too bad Jaime’s not bi, though - that might have worked really well for them!) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/251 "2013-06-04T09:36:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I think one of the reasons Tyrion is such a sympathetic character is that he’s really the only actual adult noble in the whole kit and kaboodle (other than DeadNed) Completely unrelated and off-topic, but I thought it might amuse someone that “The Isles of Dead Ned” is [an actual place](http://namibia.safari.co.za/Namibia_Travel_Articles-travel/isles-of-dead-ned-leigh-kemp.html). ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/252 "2013-06-04T11:38:56Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Well, as long as the Lannisters and Tyrells are on friendly/mutually-beneficial cooperation terms, being married to Cersei seems to be the perfect marriage for Loras. Sure, the marriage to Sansa would have benefited his \*family \*more, but on the relationship level, it wouldn’t have worked out well for either of them. With Cersei, they’ll both have no expectations from each other, and get to do whatever/\*whomever \*they want. (Too bad Jaime’s not bi, though - that might have worked really well for them!) Even if Jaime is bi, I get the feeling Loras is never fucking Cersei. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/253 "2013-06-04T13:26:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Incidentally, I always get irked by the morals of the stories involving this sort of thing, where beauty is the only factor in whether an arranged marriage is a reward or a punishment. Obviously, but the other factors are slightly more difficult to portray satisfyingly in a 10 seconds reveal scene without any dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/254 "2013-06-04T13:30:07Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Even if Jaime is bi, I get the feeling Loras is never fucking Cersei. Well, maybe Lancel can get him started, then he can close his eyes and think of Highgarden 😃 [QUOTE=SenorBeef] I’m not sure Frey would kill lord dipshit. He lived up to his bargain with Frey, he’s not a Stark, and he’s his son in law. Plus it gives Frey’s grandson (or great grandson) lordship of riverrun. Yeah, in fact, it seems like it’d play right into Frey’s hands to allow him to live and hope he’s thankful enough for being spared and being delivered a hot wife to stay loyal. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s what I figured as well. In the end, it’s all up to Edmure whether he lives or dies. If he can’t get over the massacre and tries to make a fuss, he’ll probably get butchered ; but if he can put that little thing behind him, he can live a long and healthy life with the slimiest father-in-law this side of the Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/255 "2013-06-04T13:45:15Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, maybe Lancel can get him started, then he can close his eyes and think of Highgarden 😃 Has Lancel been on the show at all this season? Not terribly related to the show, but- I watched the show the other night and then flipped channels and _Love Actually_ was playing on another HBO. I’ve never seen that movie, so I did a kind of doubletake when “[Jojen Reed: The Early Years](http://hidingwhatsthere.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/thomas_brodiesangster.jpg)” was on screen. (That actor is an even more childlike 20-something than the actor who plays Joffrey.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/256 "2013-06-04T14:03:59Z")
Oh yeah I recognized him immediately as the lovesick orphan from Live Actually. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/257 "2013-06-04T14:23:42Z")
Tune in next week when Hodor says… (I wonder if that actor has ever had to redub a line.) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/258 "2013-06-04T14:40:21Z")
I wonder which of the five stages of grief Lord Walder will be in for his wife next week. IIRC the stages are 1. Acceptance 2. Apathy 3. Good night’s sleep 4. Breakfast 5. Remarriage ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/259 "2013-06-04T14:54:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh yeah I recognized him immediately as the lovesick orphan from Live Actually. To me he will always be teenage Paul McCartney. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/260 "2013-06-04T15:01:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Has Lancel been on the show at all this season? Nope. Last we saw of him he was writhing on the ground after Cersei jabbed his arrow wound during the Battle of Blackwater Bay in episode 9 of season 2. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=14)