# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/321 "2013-06-04T21:13:40Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > That was one of my main problems with Tolkien: I didn’t feel more than one or two of the main characters were likely to get it in the neck before the end. Martin is like a tornado: he’ll take out any damned body. I found the Red Wedding to be far more shocking than Ned Stark’s beheading because he was killed at the end of the first book in what was clearly supposed to set off an epic multi-volume series, while the wedding came so far into the series after the characters had been majorly developed yet long before there’s any resolution in cite for the war or the families; it’d be like killing off Luke Skywalker on Hoth… I think the Battle of the Somme, etc., disinclined Tolkien to kill off his main characters. (Well, except Boromir.) He lost quite a few friends in the Great War. GRRM was a conscientious objector & a VISTA volunteer during Vietnam. For which I do not blame him one bit. However, he had no personal experience with violent death… ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/322 "2013-06-04T21:35:16Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > I don’t know, she really pushed me away with that bit at the end about how she’d forgive everything if they just wouldn’t kill her and Robb. That was both monumentally naive(thinking she had any bargaining power) and pathetically self-centered. “You’ve killed the love of my son’s life and his unborn child, the heirs of my fathers house, damn near everyone really and doomed the north to subjugation under the Lannisters. But you know what, as long as you let my son live I’ll make everyone else forgive you. Because what really matters here is what’s important to me. I’ll make my son forgo his vengeance. I’ll make my bannermen forgo theirs. It doesn’t matter that thousands of people lost their loved ones at your hands today. I’ll make them all forgive you and forget it, as long as you don’t kill MY son. Because he’s the mostest importantest thing in the world and I wuv him!” I very much understand where you’re coming from, and it’s a part of her character I dislike myself a lot of the time, but I couldn’t hold it against her here. She was desperate and hurt. I think a lot of parents would have reacted the same way. I would have. In fact, that’s a big part of what I like/hate about Cat- she embodies that maternal role that’s very esteemed in our culture, and it’s very likable. But you see the dark side of it too. I feel a lot of kinship to her, both in her heroism and her follies. I’d like to think if I was in Westeros I’d be a better person, but truthfully, I don’t know if I would be. I’d like to think if my SO brought home a bastard child I could accept it as my own. But I think I might be a lot more like Cat than I want to admit. I find that compelling. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/323 "2013-06-04T21:35:44Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > That is by far the most accurate summation of Cat’s character that I’ve ever read. In short, “I’m a mom, so fuck you” Which I am on-board with and have sympathy for. In the grand scheme of things her flaws… were real, relatable flaws. Parents fuck up and they fuck up royally sometimes. I liked Kat (especially any scene between her an Ned) but the scene with Talisa and her acknowledging that she was unfair to Jon Snow really made me care for her as character. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/324 "2013-06-04T22:10:57Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The final battle will be Bran vs. Danaerys with Bran saying “Stop immolating yourself! Stop immolating yourself! Stop immolating yourself!” Pshaw! Fire cannot kill a Dragon…! ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/325 "2013-06-04T22:13:29Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, he had good reasons to act this way. All he needs now is a good bath with Brienne and he will be again a loveable character. I can’t wait to see the reaction videos when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/326 "2013-06-04T22:40:30Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Yes, he had good reasons to act this way. All he needs now is a good bath with Brienne and he will be again a loveable character. Speaking of Brienne, I wonder what’s her reaction going to be. First she has the honourable hots for Renly and pledges herself to Cat for the promise she’ll get to kill whoever did him in. Now Cat’s dead through another perfidy, is she going to be gunning for Walder Frey ? Or is it just the excuse she needed to tag team with Jaime for good in the buddy comedy of the Summer ? (“He’s a swordsman without a hand, she’s a swordswoman forced to wear a dress. They fight [del]crime[/del]Baratheons !”) In other unrelated news, I’ve come across quite a few comments on the Interwebs along the lines of “Well, the show’s going to be boring now, the Lannisters have basically won”, and I’m both amazed and amused. Have these people been paying any attention whatsoever to the show so far ? Pretty sure their being in the lead just means it’s their turn to ride the merry-go-fuck-yourselves, big time. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/327 "2013-06-04T23:01:38Z")
Alright, so all the Red Wedding stuff has been pretty well covered. Now we can finally discuss the true revelation of the episode, that Daario Naharis is the greatest whistler in all the land. Does Grey Worm understand the common tongue? He acts as if he does - he offered to cut out the captain’s tongue last week when he insulted Dany, although from the way the guy was acting and the way people were reacting, it’s pretty obvious he got the gist of the situation even if he didn’t understand a word. But it seemed like he understood what Daario’s plan was, and it would be hard to say that he trusts him if he didn’t understand what he said, so it seems like perhaps he understands but does not speak common. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/328 "2013-06-04T23:06:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In other unrelated news, I’ve come across quite a few comments on the Interwebs along the lines of “Well, the show’s going to be boring now, the Lannisters have basically won”, and I’m both amazed and amused. Have these people been paying any attention whatsoever to the show so far ? Speaking as someone who [read the fucking books](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLCOvZOh1o): :smack: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/329 "2013-06-04T23:24:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Alright, so all the Red Wedding stuff has been pretty well covered. Now we can finally discuss the true revelation of the episode, that Daario Naharis is the greatest whistler in all the land. > > Does Grey Worm understand the common tongue? He acts as if he does - he offered to cut out the captain’s tongue last week when he insulted Dany, although from the way the guy was acting and the way people were reacting, it’s pretty obvious he got the gist of the situation even if he didn’t understand a word. But it seemed like he understood what Daario’s plan was, and it would be hard to say that he trusts him if he didn’t understand what he said, so it seems like perhaps he understands but does not speak common. Understanding a language whilst not being able to speak it is would be believable and reasonable, I can follow a fairly technical discussion in Spanish of my working area, but shudder to think what chaos would ensue if I tried to say what I wanted in Spanish. On the subject of Daaaario (whenever I read his name I get the picture of someone calling out his name in a high pitched voice) his constant fake looking smile is getting quite irritating, is he just high as a kite all the time? ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/330 "2013-06-04T23:46:16Z")
Here it is… [Game of Thrones Facebook Recap, Season 3, Episode 9.](http://www.happyplace.com/24297/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-9) \*\* Arya Stark\*\* is listening to _**One of These Days (I’m Going To Stick A Sword Through Your Eye Out Through The Back Of Your Head)**_ by **Pink Floyd** on **Spotify**. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/331 "2013-06-04T23:59:18Z")
**The Million of Got Viewers who didn’t read the book** have unfriended **The Million of Got Viewers who read the books** ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/332 "2013-06-05T00:25:36Z")
Oh my god, Visually disheartening genetic menagerie! It will be my life’s goal from now on to work that phrase into as many conversations as seamlessly as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/333 "2013-06-05T00:36:25Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > **The Million of Got Viewers who didn’t read the book** have unfriended **The Million of Got Viewers who read the books** That’s the one I was going to quote. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/334 "2013-06-05T00:45:35Z")
I don’t think it’s fair to blame Cat for the war. While kidnapping Tyrion did piss the Lannisters off, the event that caused the war was Ned’s beheading. That ensured that the North was never going to sign any kind of truce with the Lannisters. Although kidnapping Tyrion was really stupid ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/335 "2013-06-05T00:56:29Z")
No, the kidnapping caused the war. Tywin told Cersei he started a war over “that lecherous little imp” so what did she think he would do over Jamie. Beheading Ned ended any chance of a peace settlement, but did not start the war. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/336 "2013-06-05T01:07:14Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Speaking of, does demon child evaporate and die after doing his job, or does he just leave mommy and daddy for demon kindergarden, or… what, exactly? It never really makes it clear what becomes of him (assuming it was a boy). I expect there will be a chapter in one of the as-yet-unpublished books, with Demon Child as the viewpoint character. In that chapter we will come to appreciate the complexity of Demon Child’s choices, the ambiguities of his yearnings, and the difficulties of the path he has to walk, er, flow. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/337 "2013-06-05T01:12:50Z")
Hoe + Door had me in stitches. As did the unexpected koala. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/338 "2013-06-05T01:14:40Z")
“Bro, do you even braid?” ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/339 "2013-06-05T03:54:00Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Hoe + Door had me in stitches. As did the unexpected koala. Laughed long and hard at that one (Hoe + Door). “Shut up, giant armored pig man! Leave!” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/340 "2013-06-05T04:02:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I expect there will be a chapter in one of the as-yet-unpublished books, with Demon Child as the viewpoint character. In that chapter we will come to appreciate the complexity of Demon Child’s choices, the ambiguities of his yearnings, and the difficulties of the path he has to walk, er, flow. I think Martin should pull a Vonnegut and have himself as a viewpoint character. > [@](#): > > “Arya was an orphan because her father was beheaded. She saw that one. She didn’t see her mother’s throat slashed because she was outside pretending to be a pig merchant’s daughter. I started to go to her and tell her ‘Sorry I fucked up your childhood, shug’, but then figured I’m not really because without me she wouldn’t have had a childhood at all, and besides I was in the wedding banquet enjoying the candied tongue and thrice glazed apples with goat cheese and the make your own pizza bar, which after the slaughter had no line at all, and I made sure the Hound was there to protect her.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=18)