# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/481 "2013-06-06T21:23:09Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > As one of the derailers, I apologize… so back to the episode. > > Gilly says somethihng like “My father said ‘no Wildling has ever gazed on the wall and lived’”–clearly not true but are Gilly’s family considered Wildlings? I thought they were the equivalent of homesteaders. Just wanted that clarified. Presumably Craster was lying to his wives/daughters to keep them scared and keep them from running off. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/482 "2013-06-06T21:30:13Z")
> [@mr.jp](#): > > . Bran was presented as a character, a kid, and thus it’s a tragedy when he died. . Pretty sure Bran is still alive and kicking. Well, alive then. For those engaged in the "who is the bestest nicest " debate, please remember you are in the unspoiled thread and please try to avoid dragging book stuff in here as evidence for your point of view. Much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/483 "2013-06-06T22:56:03Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/484 "2013-06-06T22:59:08Z")
This threads get really weird as the week goes on. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/485 "2013-06-06T23:08:41Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Huh. I didn’t remember any of this FROM THE TELEVISION SHOW. I guess we’re watching a different show then, because all of that is in the one I’ve been watching. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/486 "2013-06-06T23:10:43Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Everyone that lives north of the Wall is a wildling. Did they say that in the TELEVISION SHOW? ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/487 "2013-06-06T23:47:56Z")
> [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](#): > > Huh. I didn’t remember any of this FROM THE TELEVISION SHOW. Hodor explained it all, you just weren’t paying attention. Ooh, that could be a spinoff, “Hodor Explains It All”! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/488 "2013-06-07T13:01:42Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Did they say that in the TELEVISION SHOW? Maybe they didn’t said so 100% explicitely, but it seems to me to be a given. In fact, it seems to me that a “wildling” is by definition anybody living North of the wall. Jon mentions that he has the same blood as the wildlings, being a Stark, hence descendant of the “first men”. So, the wildlings aren’t a different people, they have presumably the same ancestry as other northerners, except that they ended up on the wrong side of the wall. Regarding Craster specifically, I don’t see what might make him not qualify as a wildling too. He lives alone with his wiwes/daughters, contrarily to the other wildlings, but there’s no hint that he would be of a different origin. ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/489 "2013-06-07T13:15:46Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I like you. Let’s make out. 😉 I had no idea you two were related! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/490 "2013-06-07T13:37:24Z")
> [@precambrianmollusc](#): > > pretty sure bran is still alive and kicking. > Well, alive then. iswydt 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/491 "2013-06-07T13:37:44Z")
> [@mr. Jp](#): > > the reason i talked about the oath breaking is that people claimed the stark clan was better because they are honorable. I think this is an undeserved reputation, oath breaking is definitely not honorable. > > My problem with robb is not so much that he broke an oath. It is that he does not really show any concern about the common folk… Hodor ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/492 "2013-06-07T13:54:08Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Ooh, that could be a spinoff, “Hodor Explains It All”! “On this episode of ‘Hodor Explains It All!’, Hodor explains the history, development and future of nuclear power, lets us know just how a nuclear reactor **really** works, and discusses nuclear’s role as an important part of tomorrow’s power mix.” “Hodor hodor hodor hodor hodor. Hodor? Hodor! Hodor hodor, hodor.” He could also do his own Sunday morning talk show with leaders from both sides of the political aisle… ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/493 "2013-06-07T16:25:36Z")
So, before we get to the final episode of the year, I just want to remind everyone that it was me who [first pointed out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16173540#post16173540) that the X brace that Theon was strapped to is a close match to the Bolton sigil, back in the episode 302 thread… …and that it was me, in the episode 306 thread, that [concluded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16262779#post16262779) that Theon’s torturer is Roose Bolton’s Bastard himself. Disclaimer: I have not read the books, I do not know any spoilers, and I believe that anyone knowingly posting spoilers, especially spoilers disguised as speculation, should be given to Roose Bolton’s Bastard. If my theory is correct, we now know what happened to Winterfell: The Bastard was sent to destroy it, not relieve it. However, I think Roose might have to apologise again for an underling’s decision to chop off important parts of valuable prisoners. Of course, I had no idea that the Red Wedding was coming, so I could be entirely misled here too. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/494 "2013-06-07T16:34:05Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > So, before we get to the final episode of the year, I just want to remind everyone that it was me who [first pointed out](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16173540#post16173540) that the X brace that Theon was strapped to is a close match to the Bolton sigil, back in the episode 302 thread… > > …and that it was me, in the episode 306 thread, that [concluded](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16262779#post16262779) that Theon’s torturer is Roose Bolton’s Bastard himself. > > Disclaimer: I have not read the books, I do not know any spoilers, and I believe that anyone knowingly posting spoilers, especially spoilers disguised as speculation, should be given to Roose Bolton’s Bastard. > > If my theory is correct, we now know what happened to Winterfell: The Bastard was sent to destroy it, not relieve it. However, I think Roose might have to apologise again for an underling’s decision to chop off important parts of valuable prisoners. > > Of course, I had no idea that the Red Wedding was coming, so I could be entirely misled here too. Back when Robb first got word that Theon had betrayed him, Roose Bolton told Robb that he didn’t need to ride back and retake Winterfell himself; now that he was King in the North, he could have others do things for him, since he would have to lose the progress he had made against the Lannisters if he were to break off for Winterfell. Roose told Robb that his bastard son was close to Winterfell, and that he would be happy to do the job. Robb told Roose to send word to his bastard, that any Iron Born who surrendered would be allowed to leave with the exception of Theon himself. It’s pretty obvious from that exchange that it’s Roose’s bastard. The only thing they haven’t done in the show is come right out and say it. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/495 "2013-06-07T17:35:07Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > It’s pretty obvious from that exchange that it’s Roose’s bastard. The only thing they haven’t done in the show is come right out and say it. I’m not claiming to be the only person who came to that conclusion, I’m citing myself as the first person on the SDMB who stated it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/496 "2013-06-07T18:07:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > There’s exactly as much evidence as that suggesting that it isn’t. > The known facts are that Ned came back from the war with a babby in tow, that he wanted raised as if it was family. That’s it. Nobody knows who the mother is, nobody even remembers him being with a woman at all on the war trail, not even his old war buddy who could only wager that she must have been hot to make Eddard Stark forget about his precious honour (to which Ned pointedly remained silent). > > There’s also the fact that Jon’s hair is raven black, while Ned’s got brown hair along with Robb, Arya, Bran and Rickon. I hope this isn’t considered a spoiler, but the appearances of the characters in the book is dramatically. IIRC, the very first chapter of Game of Thrones makes it clear that Robb, Sansa, and IIRC Bran all take after their mother and have red hair and fair skin. By contrast, Arya and Jon clearly take after their father and have dark hair(Sean Bean does not look that much like Eddard Stark from the books). In fact, part of the reason Arya feels so close to Jon is because the two of them look very much like their dad. In fact, part of the reason Cat has issues with Jon is just how much he looks like Ned and while the actors who play Jon and Robb look very much like brothers, its noted several times in the book that the characters don’t look anything alike. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/497 "2013-06-07T18:19:09Z")
It doesn’t matter if it’s a spoiler or not you do not talk about the book at all. It is not complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/498 "2013-06-07T18:21:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > What are you talking about? Robb Stark was attacked for being Robb Stark. > I feel like Brienne is going to take this whole thing badly. I was referring to people on this thread. Specifically the earlier claim that Robb didn’t stop his mother from killing the Frey wife. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/499 "2013-06-07T18:23:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Maybe they didn’t said so 100% explicitely, but it seems to me to be a given. In fact, it seems to me that a “wildling” is by definition anybody living North of the wall. Jon mentions that he has the same blood as the wildlings, being a Stark, hence descendant of the “first men”. So, the wildlings aren’t a different people, they have presumably the same ancestry as other northerners, except that they ended up on the wrong side of the wall. > > Regarding Craster specifically, I don’t see what might make him not qualify as a wildling too. He lives alone with his wiwes/daughters, contrarily to the other wildlings, but there’s no hint that he would be of a different origin. What’s odd to me is that the wildlings seem to be calling themselves wildlings as well. It feels weird as the word carries somewhat negative connotations (even moreso in the French dub, I expect - I’m watching the series in English so I can’t be sure, but for the B-word the translator(s) went with “sauvageons” ; making it essentially impossible not to picture them wearing brightly coloured tracksuits and/or front-to-back baseball caps. But I digress :)) In any event, I’d have expected them to have a different endonym - be it “the free people”, “northmen”, “kin of the first men” or what have you. > [@Ibn Warraq](#): > > stuff Yeah, I know - but I was deliberately going with series-only information there, since the challenge was that the Rhagear-and-Lyanna-stting-in-a-tree stuff was only book-based. Which I don’t believe it is, as there are enough elements in the show to make the assertion “maybe Jon isn’t Ned’s bastard after all !” at the very least legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/500 "2013-06-07T18:31:06Z")
Well the book pages are in numerical order, but I’ve said too much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=26)