# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/501 "2013-06-07T18:40:55Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It doesn’t matter if it’s a spoiler or not you do not talk about the book at all. It is not complicated. The title of the thread was “no book spoilers” not “no book stuff”. That said, I won’t refer to any of the five books. Shit! I revealed there are five! ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/502 "2013-06-07T18:44:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I hope this isn’t considered a spoiler, but the appearances of the characters in the book is dramatically. In this thread, act as though the books don’t exist. Any reference to the books, no matter how innocuous you may consider it, is considered a spoiler. If you do this again, I will issue a warning for ignoring moderator instructions. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/503 "2013-06-07T19:10:34Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The title of the thread was “no book spoilers” not “no book stuff”. > > That said, I won’t refer to any of the five books. > > Shit! I revealed there are five! "The books do not exist for the purposes of this thread. No references, hints, anything. TV show is its own entity. " It’s the only freaking text in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/504 "2013-06-07T19:23:47Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > In this thread, act as though the books don’t exist. Any reference to the books, no matter how innocuous you may consider it, is considered a spoiler. > > If you do this again, I will issue a warning for ignoring moderator instructions. > > **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator Understood, based on the title of the thread, “no book spoilers” I thought it was only referencing spoilers from the books, which is why I said “hopefully this isn’t a spoiler”. I won’t make another reference to the books in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/505 "2013-06-07T20:10:02Z")
So is there any hope for a Stark comeback? Maybe Brann can control dragons as well as Hodor and crows. Maybe Jon Stark will hook up with Arya and persuade the widlings to throw in with the northern armies in exchange for land and status if they win. Maybe Daenerys will totally kick Lannister ass and prevent them from consolidating their gains in the North. I see the final episode as containing no shockers, eclipsing the Red Wedding would be difficult, the episode will just set up the next season’s conflicts. Sure to be a cliffhanger,. though. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/506 "2013-06-07T20:23:28Z")
I don’t think the Starks could make a comeback for a few years, but I think it could happen. If Arya survives, she’ll be a force to be reckoned with someday. Sansa just married into the richest house in Westeros, and, while Tyrion is fairly powerless right now, who knows what the future holds? Hell, he may take a real shine to her, and decide to avenge the Starks himself. He’s already halfway to hating his own family. Bran has some magic powers and shit, so who knows what he’ll be capable of in a couple years. Jon Snow isn’t really a Stark, and it seems unlikely to me that he’ll abandon his oath, but with the Night’s Watch in disarray it’s a possibility for sure. Rickon seems the least likely, but still. He exists. Also, I wouldn’t discount ol’ Blackfish. He got up to pee and we haven’t seen him. He might go Kill Bill style on the Boltons or something. I don’t see any reason to say the Starks are finished, personally. Down, but not out. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/507 "2013-06-07T20:25:29Z")
Comeback as in win the war of the five kings? or comeback as in not end up completely wiped out? Cause the first one is looking bleak, but the second is a strong possibility since three of the Stark kids are only presumed dead. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/508 "2013-06-07T20:32:01Z")
The main conflict this season was Starks v. Lannisters. I’m think next season Stannis makes a comeback and it’ll be Starks v. Boltons and Lannisters v. Stannis. Finishing with “Oh shit, here come the dragons.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/509 "2013-06-07T20:37:03Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Comeback as in win the war of the five kings? or comeback as in not end up completely wiped out? Cause the first one is looking bleak, but the second is a strong possibility since three of the Stark kids are only presumed dead. Oh, you of the doom and gloom. Just you wait until the Walkers make it past the Wall, and the North will rise again ! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/510 "2013-06-07T20:39:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > The main conflict this season was Starks v. Lannisters. I’m think next season Stannis makes a comeback and it’ll be Starks v. Boltons and Lannisters v. Stannis. Finishing with “Oh shit, here come the dragons.” Agreed plus lots of jockeying for position between the Tyrells and the non-Joffrey Lannisters. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/511 "2013-06-07T21:22:39Z")
This series needs Ewoks to save the day. Seriously, though: while I don’t think GRRM is going to let the Stark clan reunite anytime soon, I think that they could at best gain some revenge, but I get the feeling that House Stark as a Westeros superpower is going to be a long, long time rendered powerless. Another thought that came to me the other day: This series is totally marketed wrong. It’s not fantasy, or sci-fi, or what have you; it’s _horror._ It’s not nonstop tension and all the stuff you normally expect from horror, but it’s essentially a horror story. You’ve got zombies, demons, shapechangers, giants, direwolves, shadowbaby assassins, and rampant death and suffering. Watching it as a horror show, albeit with a slow build, makes it all make more sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/512 "2013-06-08T05:23:34Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > but the second is a strong possibility since three of the Stark kids are only presumed dead. Theon and his torturer know that Bran and Rickon are alive. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/513 "2013-06-08T19:57:45Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s odd to me is that the wildlings seem to be calling themselves wildlings as well. Do they? I didn’t pay attention to this. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/514 "2013-06-09T02:27:49Z")
[I’ll just leave this picture here.](https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/944635_574919092574167_1244599898_n.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/515 "2013-06-09T04:17:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > "The books do not exist for the purposes of this thread. No references, hints, anything. TV show is its own entity. " > > It’s the only freaking text in the OP. Not everyone reads the OP, especially when the thread gets past one page (since they can click the page number instead to jump to the end). The titles really should say “no book discussion” instead of “no book spoilers” since the two _are_ different. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/516 "2013-06-09T07:53:50Z")
I suggest changing the thread title warning from “No book spoilers” to “No book stuff.” > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The title of the thread was “no book spoilers” not “no book stuff”. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/517 "2013-06-09T11:38:25Z")
[I changed it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=693333) but it’s not going to stop people from trying to claim some bullshit to try to hijack the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/518 "2013-06-10T00:22:42Z")
Something I missed the first time around. In episode 7, when Jaime is departing Bolton’s camp on his way to King’s landing, Bolton says “You will give my regards to Lord Tywin I trust?” “Tell Robb Stark I’m sorry he couldn’t make his uncle’s wedding. The Lannisters send their regards” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/519 "2013-06-10T05:07:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Of course the roughest scene in this episode was the hardcore friendzone thrashing Jorah received. > > “Hi, I’m covered in blood, I barely made it back alive, and I killed like 50 dudes for you” > > “Hey, yeah, whatever, where’s that dude with the hair?” Heh. Love it. > [@Acsenray](#): > > …The issue [is] that (1) there might not be anyone with sufficient strength and authority to punish the Freys for that crime and (2) even if there were such a person, he might not be inclined to do so. > > This is pretty realistic in terms if development of law in our own history. The king was the law and whatever he or his representative decided was an “actual crime” when someone was brought before him was all that there was. Good points. An independent judiciary and the rule of law are a looong way off, if ever, for the people of Westeros. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I liked when he was introducing the Frey girls. > > “Twins, you could have had either, or both for all I care… Walda, or Waldrina, or Nerva, or…” > “I’m Merry.” > “Fine then.” > > Of course maybe if he had shown the pretty one at the time of the betrothal it would have kept Robb a bit more focused on it… Good scene. I liked his eyebrow waggle to Robb when the cute bride is unveiled, too. I wonder why he “wasted” a pretty girl on Edmure, though? He could palm off one of the plain/ugly ones on the reluctant groom and still have Roslin to barter to, say, a Lannister or Tyrell for further political advantage. > [@Sampiro](#): > > WANTED: Musicians/crossbowmen for entertainment and multiple assassinations. Should be up on wedding marches, _Rains of Castamere_, have no moral problems with killing women and unarmed men, and some knowledge of good dance standards. Prepare to play 32 bars and shoot a small pig at audition. > > Then imagine the wedding planner: “Cue the band, Papa brings Baby down the aisle, shoots shit-eating grin, ‘Me cloak you long time’ and Father Mother Warrior Crone Smith Professor and Mary Ann I take thee yadda yadda’, then I’m thinking the fish course, a chocolate fountain, some west country jigs, maybe an exotic dance remix from the east, then the bedding, the surprise slaughter for which you Lord Walder will sit here and you Lady Frey should be behind his chair because being under the table would just be begging to be taken hostage, I think you should be sure to seat the Queen of the North here as it will be easier to triangulate when her husband comes to the rescue, and then some nice lime sherbert as a not too heavy follow up while the cleaning crews flood the floor before the bloodstains set in.” Love it! > [@Kobal2](#): > > …The boy’s _seen things_ you people wouldn’t believe… attack horses in a spiral off the Fist of the First Men… He’s seen blue eyes glitter in the dark at Castle Black’s Gate… Nicely done. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Every time you masturbate, George RR Martin kills a Stark. I _knew_ it! > [@Sampiro](#): > > It’s interesting to speculate what Robert’s reaction would have been had Ned gotten to him in time with proof of Cersei and Jaime’s incest. > > His initial impulse of course would have been to kill both of them and possibly the children, but this would have had major practical considerations: > > - His entire realm knows he is a cuckold, and not just once but many times and for years > - It would mean killing the only two children of any consequence to the richest and most powerful lord in his realm and one who probably would not let himself be taken quietly or let his children be unavenged > -Tywin could also bankrupt the realm in a split second by demanding repayment of the gold they owe him; if Robert killed him and cancelled the debts it would mean that nobody would ever again loan money to the crown and they’d be broke within months. > > On the other hand, not to do so would mean a bastard would take his throne. His best bet would have been to annul the marriage and declare the kids his but illegitimate, but that doesn’t mean it’s what he would have done. Great question. I’m tempted to start a new thread about it. Robert was pretty impulsive, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Cersei and Jaime were headless within the hour, and to hell with the consequences. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Also : > > - Ned outlawed flayings in the North > - Treated Theon, his hostage, as well as his own sons, taught him to fight and so on > - Threatened to resign as Hand if the Council went ahead with the planned murder of Daenerys > - Warned Cersei that he was about to blow the lid on the incest thing, so that she’d have an honourable out and/or hasty retreat while she still could > - Kat refused to let Lysa just throw Tyrion down the Eyries’ pit (though that one is less benevolent than practical) > - Wouldn’t let Brienne commit suicide-by-guard > - Robb let Talysa patch up the Lannister wounded, using up his own army’s supplies in the process (whether that was compassion or trying to get in her pants is left as an exercise to the reader) > - Arya gave Jaqen et al. an axe so they wouldn’t burn alive, even though she was scared of them (one had even threatened to rape and kill her)… Ned also was willing to personally enforce the laws as to executing Night’s Watch deserters, and prohibiting slavery - as Jorah Mormont learned, to his chagrin. > [@pancakes3](#): > > I don’t mean to be “that guy” but one of the major takeaways from GoT is that there is no absolute good and no absolute evil. Everybody is flawed and what ends up happening isn’t always what’s right. Debating whether the Starks are better than the Lannisters isn’t just debating semantics - it defies one of the major “lessons” of the show/book. Both are by design flawed and both have - by design - redeeming features. > > Except Cersei and Joffrey. Those two are c\*\*ts (and I’m not talking about the 10th century Dane either)… Theon’s torturer also seems to be 100% USDA-approved Grade A evil. > [@voltaire](#): > > I think the truth is somewhere in between. His plan was like the Allied invasion of Normandy. He had been winning the war, but the Lannisters were now in a defensive posture that they could have held onto indefinitely without some bold and decisive action by Robb’s army to force their hand. > > His forces were weakened, but still strong enough to maintain the status quo. The problem was, the status quo kinda sucked. It was also untenable. No one in those days could keep a standing army in the field indefinitely… and Robb knew that Winter is Coming. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/520 "2013-06-16T17:30:42Z")
So who are the enemies of the Lannisters now (apart from Dragon lady)? I assume the Tullys don’t like their family members killed off, but are there any other big houses still against them on the Starks side (rather than Stannis’s side)? It aways bugged be though about Jamie and the kings guard. In a world where the eldest son inherits the kingdom, why did he end up in the Kings guard where he effectively couldn’t? Seemed a bit of a plot hole to me… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=27)