# Game of Thrones 3.09 "The Rains of Castamere" 6/2/13 No book spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972 "2013-06-02T20:55:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/161 "2013-06-03T18:35:11Z")
Don’t forget though, that the seasons are not like ours. Also, of course, it was tongue-in-cheek. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/162 "2013-06-03T18:38:58Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > Thank you. > Thats what I thought but I couldnt really hear it… > Odd statement from Tyrion isnt it? > Perhaps a hint of whats to come. 🙂 > Tyrion is the odd one isnt it? He seems honorable and that kinda goes against the theme of the show. > I wonder if and when the Lannisters are defeated if he would be spared? > > But I wonder what North is he talking about, with Winterfell done theres not much left is there? > > The only real threat now is Danayeris isnt she? It’s not an odd thing for him to say at all. The North is huge, it’s almost as big as the rest of the seven kingdoms combined, and it’s populated like the rest of Westeros, with all of its various lower level lords presumably having little keeps of their own. I’m pretty sure what just happened amounts to a huge war crime (not in the technical sense). People are gonna be fucking pissed, I bet. Tyrion is honorable in a modern sense of the word but I don’t think he’s particularly honorable in the Eddard Stark kind of way. He’s more than willing to use underhanded tactics, so he’s not honorable, he’s just not a monster. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/163 "2013-06-03T18:43:42Z")
I think one of the reasons Tyrion is such a sympathetic character is that he’s really the only actual adult noble in the whole kit and kaboodle (other than DeadNed) who actually spares an occasional thought for what the Game of Thrones does to the smallfolk, which is really what irritates his father, sister and nephew so very much. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/164 "2013-06-03T18:45:23Z")
I felt bad for Robb’s Wolf. Those cowards! I would have liked it to break out and take a few of them with him. Poor Arya, just in time to see a second parent murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/165 "2013-06-03T18:45:43Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > To the extent that there’s as theme or point to GoT it’s that laws and claims and legalities are irrelevant if you don’t have the force to back them up. > > If he ends up with an army of 30,000 hardened troops and rides up to Winterfell and points out that he was Ned’s bastard, well, gosh, I bet lots of people nearby will agree that that’s very important. But aside from that, what does any legality matter? It’s not like there’s a supreme court of Westeros that we’ve ever heard of, and if there was, it would be pretty clearly under the thumb of one Tywin Lannister. That’s more what I’m asking. Could Snow rally the remaining Northerners to him as “the last son of Eddard Stark” and make a play at least becoming the actual Lord of Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/166 "2013-06-03T18:50:02Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > That’s more what I’m asking. Could Snow rally the remaining Northerners to him as “the last son of Eddard Stark” and make a play at least becoming the actual Lord of Winterfell. He’s taken the black. If he deserts the Night’s Watch, it will be the duty of every person in Westeros to turn him in. Very few people, if anyone, would back him up or follow his lead. Jon cannot do anything with the rest of his life except serve on the Wall. He can’t be a lord, he can’t be a king, he can’t even be a dirt farmer or cow chip merchant. Except join Mance Rayder. And that didn’t work out. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/167 "2013-06-03T18:55:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He’s taken the black. If he deserts the Night’s Watch, it will be the duty of every person in Westeros to turn him in. Very few people, if anyone, would back him up or follow his lead. Jon cannot do anything with the rest of his life except serve on the Wall. He can’t be a lord, he can’t be a king, he can’t even be a dirt farmer or cow chip merchant. > > Except join Mance Rayder. And that didn’t work out. Is there a process by which someone may be released with honor from this oath? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/168 "2013-06-03T18:56:19Z")
Dying? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/169 "2013-06-03T18:56:27Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Walder Frey was actually funny in a dickish way right until the end too, the look he gives Robb when they reveal Edmure’s wife is perfect. I liked when he was introducing the Frey girls. “Twins, you could have had either, or both for all I care… Walda, or Waldrina, or Nerva, or…” “I’m Merry.” “Fine then.” Of course maybe if he had shown the pretty one at the time of the betrothal it would have kept Robb a bit more focused on it. I did wish he’d had a cat on his lap called Mrs. Norris or bitch about having to clean up after the massacre, though. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/170 "2013-06-03T19:00:47Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Is there a process by which someone may be released with honor from this oath? That’d be a pretty bad precendent, wouldn’t it ? As I understand it, the whole point of the oath is that these men (most of whom are the lowest of the low, criminals, rapists and so on) have no other concern or prospect but doing their duty on the Wall until they keel over. If there was any way whatsoever to get out, they’d all be angling for it and that’d distract from their job. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/171 "2013-06-03T19:03:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’d be a pretty bad precendent, wouldn’t it ? > As I understand it, the whole point of the oath is that these men (most of whom are the lowest of the low, criminals, rapists and so on) … Of course there are no rapists in Westetos. Only rap_ers_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/172 "2013-06-03T19:04:18Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Of course maybe if he had shown the pretty one at the time of the betrothal it would have kept Robb a bit more focused on it. When Robb asks Cat if any of the Frey girls looked ok she says “one of them seemed… suitable”, which i imagine had to be Roslyn. She should’ve been way more enthusiastic. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/173 "2013-06-03T19:10:58Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Is there a process by which someone may be released with honor from this oath? None yet mentioned. If the storyline with the white walkers and wildlings somehow make the wall and the watch obsolete, who knows what twists lurks in the mind of the author. For me my hopes for the episode (and any episode) depends on the warnings at the beginning. No nudity warning for this one. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/174 "2013-06-03T19:11:33Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > When Robb asks Cat if any of the Frey girls looked ok she says “one of them seemed… suitable”, which i imagine had to be Roslyn. She should’ve been way more enthusiastic. I don’t recall there having been a pretty one in that scene. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/175 "2013-06-03T19:16:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That’d be a pretty bad precendent, wouldn’t it ? > As I understand it, the whole point of the oath is that these men (most of whom are the lowest of the low, criminals, rapists and so on) have no other concern or prospect but doing their duty on the Wall until they keel over. If there was any way whatsoever to get out, they’d all be angling for it and that’d distract from their job. Since we’re spending an awful lot of time talking about the lack or rule of law and the “guidelines” being meaningless… It seems that somone–like the last remaining male of ruling family–could forsake the oath with good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/176 "2013-06-03T19:23:48Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t recall there having been a pretty one in that scene. There weren’t any in that scene, because it was off-screen. But there’s also no reason to believe that Roslyn was in the room when Catlyn and Frey came to that agreement - Frey clearly gets a lot of enjoyment out of making people squirm. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/177 "2013-06-03T19:24:41Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > It seems that somone–like the last remaining male of ruling family–could forsake the oath with good reason. Perhaps, but the tricky part is convincing everyone else(that matter) that it is a good enough reason, I don’t imagine someone like Lord Bolton would support a Stark bastard breaking his oath to the Night’s Watch so he can inherit the North. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/178 "2013-06-03T19:30:55Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Perhaps, but the tricky part is convincing everyone else(that matter) that it is a good enough reason, I don’t imagine someone like Lord Bolton would support a Stark bastard breaking his oath to the Night’s Watch so he can inherit the North. I would think that the North couldn’t give two shits about what Bolton thinks after this, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/179 "2013-06-03T19:37:41Z")
> [@Cuckoorex](#): > > I would think that the North couldn’t give two shits about what Bolton thinks after this, though. What? You think he would pull a stunt like this if he didn’t think it would make him _the_ Lord, or close to it, of the North? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972/180 "2013-06-03T19:39:40Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Since we’re spending an awful lot of time talking about the lack or rule of law and the “guidelines” being meaningless… > It seems that somone–like the last remaining male of ruling family–could forsake the oath with good reason. If we can use Medieval Europe as precedence, William the Bastard made a pretty convincing argument for his throne legitimacy exception-clause after crossing the narrow channel, with horses no less. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-3-09-the-rains-of-castamere-6-2-13-no-book-spoilers/659972.md?page=10)