# Game of Thrones 4.01 "Two Swords" 4/6/14 \[NO SPOILERS - See sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480 "2014-04-06T16:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/181 "2014-04-08T20:39:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’ve not read a single word of the books and have avoided all book spoilers. From the facts given I can’t see her literally being part dragon. Dragon-inspired magic could be passed on in many different ways. That’s about how I took it. There’s more than one way to skin a cat… or to acquire (some of) the attributes of a dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/182 "2014-04-08T20:40:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Well, at least one of them kinda/sorta does. The kid that can’t walk now–Bran? Rik? (I’m bad with names) has demonstrated some ability to take on wolf-like traits in his dreams and/or somehow mind control animals. Warging? Some word that sounds like that. We know some wildlings seem to be able to do it as well. It’s not exactly the same as being part-animal. True, but that’s not a Stark thing - Jojen Reed can do it, so could Distrustful Hawk Wildling Guy (whom Jon killed), and evidently so can one of the cannibals introduced in this ep. And of course Mélisandre can do some pretty fucked up things (and insinuates that she could have saved the sailors who died at the Blackwater Bay - though this being Mélisandre she could have been talking straight out of her ass) and Thoros of Myr can raise the dead - neither of which belong to a great House. Could be their fire god, could be they’re just magic. Same for Jaqen H’gar the Murder Genie, or the creepy-ass conjurers from Qarth. Obviously magic exists in the world without it being dragon-powered (least not directly) or stemming from lineage. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/183 "2014-04-08T20:41:15Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Maybe you could ride them into battle because, hey, Dragons like battles. It is known. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/184 "2014-04-08T20:57:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In Season 2, When Tyrion became acting hand, he fired Janos Slynt for the slaughter of Robert’s bastards and sent him north to the Wall, replacing him with Bronn – [http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0VXYz7cjGE](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0VXYz7cjGE) I knew that. But the night watch seems pretty demanding of its new recruits. I can’t really see them being highly impressed by Janos Slynt previous experience as corrupt city watch leader when he presumably didn’t even set a foot beyond he wall. I’d rather expect them to pick some hardened and experienced ranger as officer. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I strongly disagree. She started out as stupidly naive, thinking that she was going to marry her handsome prince and live in a castle and all of that. Then life dumped a massive amount of shit on her over and over again. Now she is scared and timid, but also starting to learn to play the game a bit herself, and to take her victories where they come. > . Well… don’t forget that she fell for the same trick a second time last season, when she was so enamored of Loras that she became oblivious to his flaws (again) and forfeited her chance to escape the city. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Those weren’t the last words of her friend. Those were the words the guy she poked said to her friend. She spoke his own words back to him, and you can see _just_ before the blade went in that he remembered killing the kid and that the words he was now hearing were his own words. Ok, then make that replay the death scene of her friend. Still extremely cold. You expect that from some embodiment of justice/karma, not from a young girl. She displays exactly zero emotion during the whole scene (and no more when she watch the hound fighting). > [@BlackKnight](#): > > I don’t see how that implies that Frey is actually an outcast. The fact that the remaining Starks don’t like him and wish him ill doesn’t really tell us anything. To the best of my recollection, we’ve not yet seen any negative repercussions for Frey after his colorful wedding planning. > > Heck, maybe the other Houses are impressed with the strength and cunning of House Frey. Or perhaps they are fearful and therefore more willing to work with him. Lord Bolton at least is thoroughly unimpressed, and he was instrumental in the plot. Tiwyn, as someone mentioned, is counting on plausible deniability and would rather distance himself from Lord Frey. It’s certainky strongly implied that killing your guest under your roof is a really, really bad thing. Way more serious than, say, raping, torturing and pillaging. > [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Robb knew how to win battles, but had no idea how to win the war. I would disagree. It’s strongly implied that he is a very smart commander (he fools Tywin, win several battles despite being outnumbered, has a subtle plan foiled by his uncle in Riverrun, makes an unexpected move towards Casterly Rock to surprise the ennemy,…). He also has a good grasp of his men expectations. Honestly, I’m not sure why people keep saying he’s an idiot. He made in my opinion only one mistake (his marriage). It turns to be a fatal mistake, but it’s the only one I can see. And I don’t count executing Lord Karstark as a mistake. He was then in a position where there was no good option. Sparring him wouldn’t have been any better. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/185 "2014-04-08T21:01:45Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I knew that. But the night watch seems pretty demanding of its new recruits. I can’t really see them being highly impressed by Janos Slynt previous experience as corrupt city watch leader when he presumably didn’t even set a foot beyond he wall. I’d rather expect them to pick some hardened and experienced ranger as officer. Well the nightswatch is mostly criminals with no other options, an actual leader of soldiers would be a perfect candidate for leadership. My guess is that they really WERE pretty impressed by his previous experience. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/186 "2014-04-08T21:04:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > and evidently so can one of the cannibals introduced in this ep. > > . Huh? Who? Where? I didn’t notice that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/187 "2014-04-08T21:04:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Are the Starks part direwolf then? I would assume no. They just keep a bunch as pets. Some Targaryans (like Dany) literally do have some magical connection with dragons in that they are immune to fire and can control them. Rob Stark has been rumored to turn into a direwolf and tear his enemies to pieces. That’s all bullshit though. The Starks are no more part wolf than the Lannisters are part lions. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And of course Mélisandre can do some pretty fucked up things (and insinuates that she could have saved the sailors who died at the Blackwater Bay - though this being Mélisandre she could have been talking straight out of her ass) and Thoros of Myr can raise the dead - neither of which belong to a great House. Could be their fire god, could be they’re just magic. Same for Jaqen H’gar the Murder Genie, or the creepy-ass conjurers from Qarth. Obviously magic exists in the world without it being dragon-powered (least not directly) or stemming from lineage. And don’t forget the fire-demon that apparently feeds on Varys balls. > [@Debaser](#): > > Originally Posted by MaxTheVool View Post > Maybe you could ride them into battle because, hey, Dragons like battles. > > It is known. And now the rains weep o’er his hall with something something Hodor. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/188 "2014-04-08T21:09:35Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Huh? Who? Where? I didn’t notice that. The disfigured wildlings that met up with Ygritte & co. took the rabbits off the fire and started roasting an arm they pulled from a bag they tote around. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/189 "2014-04-08T21:12:27Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Huh? Who? Where? I didn’t notice that. The other wildlings that joined up with Ygritte’s group. They had a warg with them. Ygritte implied that season that wargs aren’t that uncommon north of the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/190 "2014-04-08T21:29:32Z")
Was the “warg” what they were referring to when they mentioned crows? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/191 "2014-04-08T21:32:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Was the “warg” what they were referring to when they mentioned crows? The redbeard guy was asking how the cannibals were able to find them. The head cannibal pointed to a guy who was a warg implying that they were able to spot him with their warg and said the fact that Ygritte & co weren’t able to see them coming meant that Ygritte & co’s warg was dead (he is). Crows refers to the soldiers on the wall because they dress in all-black like crows. They’re good eating apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/192 "2014-04-08T21:33:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Was the “warg” what they were referring to when they mentioned crows? I think the “crow” and variations thereof are how the wildlings refer to the Night Watch. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/193 "2014-04-08T21:51:39Z")
[Show renewed for two more seasons, season premier most watched HBO show since Sopranos series finale.](http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/08/game-of-thrones-renewed-for-two-more-seasons/?hpt=hp_t3) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/194 "2014-04-08T21:56:30Z")
Sweet! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/195 "2014-04-08T22:30:18Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > …Ygritte & co’s warg was dead (he is). I had a question about that warg. As John Snow was killing him, he went into a hawk, then attacked Snow, scratching his face. Does the warg exist separate from his body? What happens to the warg/hawk now that his human body is dead? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/196 "2014-04-08T22:52:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I had a question about that warg. As John Snow was killing him, he went into a hawk, then attacked Snow, scratching his face. Does the warg exist separate from his body? What happens to the warg/hawk now that his human body is dead? I assumed he stuck in the bird. Kind of “Being John Malkovich.” He could be in control for a bit but would eventually just be absorbed. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/197 "2014-04-08T23:04:21Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Well… don’t forget that she fell for the same trick a second time last season, when she was so enamored of Loras that she became oblivious to his flaws (again) and forfeited her chance to escape the city. I don’t think that’s really comparable at all. She was faced with two possible ways to get out of the current unpleasant situation she was in: (1) Marry Ser Loras (and there’s no reason to think that that was not a real plan with a good solid chance of success) or (2) Trust Littlefinger and put herself into his power Granted, we as the audience know that Loras is a pillow-biter, and it turns out that the Lannisters were a step ahead and screwed that plan up, but we as the audience also know that trusting Littlefinger is a TERRIBLE idea. So even if her decision-making was still somewhat influenced by how dreamy Loras is, I would hardly say that that’s at all similar to having been enamored of Joffrey way back when. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/198 "2014-04-08T23:31:49Z")
What if all the magical powers in the show stem from sacrifice and expectations? Most of the magic feats I can think of have involved some form of sacrifice - [ul] [li]Dany sacrificed the witch and at least symbolically sacrificed herself in the pyre. And she’s obsessed with dragons, so that’s how the power manifests. [/li][li]Melisandre’s magic always seems to have a sacrificial component, whether blood, semen/life force, or full-on human sacrifice. And she believes it’s all the Lord of Light, so her power always works through fire and shadow. [/li][li]Bran gained powers when he became a cripple. [/li][li]Jojen has powers, but therefore suffers seizures. [/li][li]Craster very specifically sacrifices all his male children for protection. [/li][li]Hell, maybe Beric Dondarrion is the one with magic, and it’s mere coincidence that Thoros mumbles over him when he gives up his life for his cause and gets reanimated. It certainly doesn’t seem to be part of the LoL (heh) catechism.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/199 "2014-04-09T00:01:51Z")
I happened to stumble upon [this](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/15/arts/television/game-of-thrones-begins-sunday-on-hbo-review.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1396998196-2gImYSxGGB+LL2/OONR5ZA) review of the first season, written back when it premiered in 2011: > [@](#): > > Embedded in the narrative is a vague global-warming horror story. > [@](#): > > While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first. “Game of Thrones” is boy fiction patronizingly turned out to reach the population’s other half. Keep that in mind ladies - you’re watching “boy fiction”. :dubious: The entire review is a real hoot. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/200 "2014-04-09T01:15:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …pillow-biter… Heh. I’d never heard that phrase before Sunday. Is it original to GOT? Also, please remind me: What’s the name of the guy who chopped off Jaime’s hand, and have we seen what became of him since? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=11)