# Game of Thrones 4.01 "Two Swords" 4/6/14 \[NO SPOILERS - See sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480 "2014-04-06T16:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/221 "2014-04-09T16:24:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Being part dragon does not require a dragon-human pairing. Hereditary magic, an affinity for dragons is a perfectly acceptable definition for what being “part dragon” means. > > Consider Kevin Costner’s character in Waterworld. Assuming his newly evolved gills get passed on to his descendants, it would be fair and reasonable to call them part fish despite his mother never fucking a fish. I am fairly and reasonably certain that you are the _only_ English speaking adult in the entire world who uses the phrase “part X” this way. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/222 "2014-04-09T16:39:30Z")
Disappointed to have to wait so long for the all-important chorus line tits-ass-tits scene. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/223 "2014-04-09T16:41:15Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > Game of Thrones on Facebook recap for Season 4 Ep 1 is finally posted. > > [Link](http://happyplace.someecards.com/30451/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-1) Ser Edward Snowden hates this. HAHAHAHA!!! ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/224 "2014-04-09T17:20:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I am fairly and reasonably certain that you are the _only_ English speaking adult in the entire world who uses the phrase “part X” this way. Outside of formal biology discussions you would be wrong. “Part X” as in having some shared characteristics is common. I’ve heard “part flamingo” for liking shrimp, “part ox” for being strong, “part horse” for being fast. In a fantasy realm, having gills would easily be “part fish”. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/225 "2014-04-09T17:53:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Nice. Every girl should have a murder pony. My Lethal Pony: Bloodshed is Magic! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/226 "2014-04-09T18:00:31Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Outside of formal biology discussions you would be wrong. “Part X” as in having some shared characteristics is common. I’ve heard “part flamingo” for liking shrimp, “part ox” for being strong, “part horse” for being fast. In a fantasy realm, having gills would easily be “part fish”. If that’s the intended meaning, then it imparts no information at all. It’s just a synonym for the phenomenon being observed. – “Why is X violet? Because it’s purple.” At least “it’s magic” has some, if minimal, information content, that being, “some supernatural phenomenon.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/227 "2014-04-09T18:00:49Z")
Oh, for goodness sake. A mermaid is part-human, part-fish, no? And, barring any sort of magical transformation, typically they are assumed to come about via a mermaid-merman pairing, not a fish-human pairing. In the real world, a Labradoodle has a Lab and a Poodle as parents, but in fantasy-world, I wouldn’t bat an eye at it having the front half of a poodle and the back half of a lab. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/228 "2014-04-09T18:05:40Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Oh, for goodness sake. A mermaid is part-human, part-fish, no? And, barring any sort of magical transformation, typically they are assumed to come about via a mermaid-merman pairing, not a fish-human pairing. As I said, in that case “part-fish” is simply a description, not an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/229 "2014-04-09T18:12:18Z")
This is not an attempt to junior mod, more of a suggestion. Is this really worth arguing about? Dany clearly has some special powers, Dany believes she is part dragon, like literally part of them is dragon that their blood is actually part dragon blood. What is the truth is simply lore and conjecture. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/230 "2014-04-09T18:59:25Z")
No, don’t you get it? Semantics are vitally important and worthy of endless pages of discussion. It’s not pathetic and sad _at all_. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/231 "2014-04-09T20:22:56Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > That’s open to interpretation, but my view was that she fell head over heels for him because he was pretty, and a glorious knight in shining armour. IOW a repeat of her first season prince charming. And dropped everything else she had in mind for that dream. > > As for not being aware that he’s a “pillow bitter” : precisely. Everybody and his dog knows he is. Except Sansa. Knowing this kind of basic information would be pretty useful to survive. All other characters make a point of being well informed because they know they need to. But Sansa is just oblivious of everything. Same goes for Littlefinger by the way. Before she decided on a marriage with Loras, she was ready to follow him anywhere. Nobody in his right mind in King’s Landing would trust Littlefinger. And she’s also totally unable to notice that Tyrion is very willing to help her. She also rebuffed the hound presumably because he’s big and scarry. And coming back to Ser Loras, she absolutely didn’t notice his lack of interest in her (even not knowing he was gay, that at least was plenty obvious). > > To sum up, she’s still ready to fall for anyone at any time, she’s completely naive, totally uninformed and is an abysmal judge of charachter. Until she has been severely bitten, she seems to trust anybody who’s up to no good, and distrust anybody who’s actually willing to help. At this point, I’m pretty sure she would have seen lord Frey as a grandfatherly figure, and would have been enthralled to hang out with the Bolton bastard. One thing to remember about Sansa is that although she is very tall, she is only 14 years old. Before Robert came to town, I don’t think her parents were thinking of her marrying for several years. She was wholely unprepared for what happened to her and it is showing. Littlefinger is not only an adult but judging from his rise from nobody to the small council, one of the best manipulators in the seven kingdoms. Likewise Margery is a great manipulator. They saw how vulnerable she was and crafted an appeal to take advantage of it. She saw her father killed, and has been in constant danger for her life the time since then. She was literally beaten in public. She is a scared little girl grasping for any lifeline, she can to get her out of danger. It would be unrealistic of her to not be way in over her head. Her father was and he was a grown man with years of experience in politics. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/232 "2014-04-09T21:14:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Duke of Wellington considered himself an Englishman to the core but was actually born in Ireland. He once said, “Just because one is born in a stable does not make one a horse.” That’s a great quote. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/233 "2014-04-09T21:52:54Z")
> [@Wolverine](#): > > Game of Thrones on Facebook recap for Season 4 Ep 1 is finally posted. > > [Link](http://happyplace.someecards.com/30451/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-1) Daario has changed his profile picture. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/234 "2014-04-09T23:51:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > One thing to remember about Sansa is that although she is very tall, she is only 14 years old. Before Robert came to town, I don’t think her parents were thinking of her marrying for several years. She was wholely unprepared for what happened to her and it is showing. Littlefinger is not only an adult but judging from his rise from nobody to the small council, one of the best manipulators in the seven kingdoms. Likewise Margery is a great manipulator. They saw how vulnerable she was and crafted an appeal to take advantage of it. > She saw her father killed, and has been in constant danger for her life the time since then. She was literally beaten in public. She is a scared little girl grasping for any lifeline, she can to get her out of danger. It would be unrealistic of her to not be way in over her head. Her father was and he was a grown man with years of experience in politics. There are better ways to go about it than pouting. I agree that there should be large degrees of sympathy afforded her and that it borders on the irrational to ask her to play the game perfectly but it’s just so unbearable to watch her angst on the way she does and LIVE while her sister goes about it so much more entertainingly. Yes, Sansa is probably doing a more realistic portrayal but it just makes for frustrating entertainment. Compelling, but frustrating. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/235 "2014-04-10T01:20:54Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > One thing to remember about Sansa is that although she is very tall, she is only 14 years old. Before Robert came to town, I don’t think her parents were thinking of her marrying for several years. She was wholely unprepared for what happened to her and it is showing. Littlefinger is not only an adult but judging from his rise from nobody to the small council, one of the best manipulators in the seven kingdoms. Likewise Margery is a great manipulator. They saw how vulnerable she was and crafted an appeal to take advantage of it. > She saw her father killed, and has been in constant danger for her life the time since then. She was literally beaten in public. She is a scared little girl grasping for any lifeline, she can to get her out of danger. It would be unrealistic of her to not be way in over her head. Her father was and he was a grown man with years of experience in politics. True enough. I agree with all of that, but I also think that she is very passive - she seems to be making no efforts at all to help herself in any way - she just waits for the next awful thing to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/236 "2014-04-10T01:32:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > True enough. I agree with all of that, but I also think that she is very passive - she seems to be making no efforts at all to help herself in any way - she just waits for the next awful thing to happen. That’s one of the points of the story—the utter powerlessness of a person like Sansa in that society. She has done remarkably well in surviving her situation. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/237 "2014-04-10T02:31:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > True enough. I agree with all of that, but I also think that she is very passive - she seems to be making no efforts at all to help herself in any way - she just waits for the next awful thing to happen. There’s not really a lot she could do to help herself. She has no money or marketable skills, and depends on her husband for her survival. If she were to leave him, she’d pretty much have to work in a brothel if she wanted to eat and have a roof over her head. Being a virgin, I suspect she’d earn a high price from her first customer, but after that, she’s just another whore in a world with plenty of competition. If she tried traveling cross country by herself, she’d likely be raped and/or murdered before she was out of sight from the city gates. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/238 "2014-04-10T02:43:30Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > One thing to remember about Sansa is that although she is very tall, she is only 14 years old. Before Robert came to town, I don’t think her parents were thinking of her marrying for several years. She was wholely unprepared for what happened to her and it is showing. Littlefinger is not only an adult but judging from his rise from nobody to the small council, one of the best manipulators in the seven kingdoms. Likewise Margery is a great manipulator. They saw how vulnerable she was and crafted an appeal to take advantage of it. > She saw her father killed, and has been in constant danger for her life the time since then. She was literally beaten in public. She is a scared little girl grasping for any lifeline, she can to get her out of danger. It would be unrealistic of her to not be way in over her head. Her father was and he was a grown man with years of experience in politics. I don’t say she doesn’t have excuses. I’m just saying I don’t see her becoming anymore savy, as some people claim. And regarding her age, I just can’t perceive her as being 14. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/239 "2014-04-10T02:57:38Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > And regarding her age, I just can’t perceive her as being 14. If you’re going to deny the premise, I’m not sure there’s a basis for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/240 "2014-04-10T04:07:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If you’re going to deny the premise, I’m not sure there’s a basis for discussion. I’m watching a show. The character doesn’t look 14 at all. How could I possibly perceive her as being 14? I know this a common flaw in American TV, but personnally, I’m utterly unable to watch a 25 yo on screen and that he’s in fact a 15 yo high schooler, for instance. I know that Sansa is supposed to be a young teen in the books, but if it weren’t for the fact that she menstruated recently for the first time, I would have assumed that the show had made the choice of making her a significantly older girl. I know that the actress wasn’t much older either, but she _looked_ older. Similarly, for me, Jon Snow or Robb Stark are in their mid/late 20, definitely not teenagers. Discussing them as if they really were 15 just seems silly to me since they obviously aren’t in the show. I’m just unable to perceive them any other way and again with the exception of Sansa, nowhere it is mentioned that they’re as young in the show as they are in the books. So, yes I make the assumption that characters in the show are the age they look like they are. Maybe I’m supposed to ignore what I see in the same way that in some theatrical traditions I’m supposed to pretend that the male actor is in fact a female, but if so, it absolutely doesn’t work for me. Finally, a 18 yo girl isn’t massively more mature than a 15 yo, nor expected to be able to handle what Sansa has to face in the show. So age-related arguments ( “she’s only a terrified teen”) are pretty much as valid either way. Again, I’m ready to accept she has excuses for being what she is, but I’m still totally unimpressed by the evolution some viewers seem to perceive in her character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=13)