# Game of Thrones 4.01 "Two Swords" 4/6/14 \[NO SPOILERS - See sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480 "2014-04-06T16:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/61 "2014-04-07T17:07:37Z")
The new actor for Daario was extremely jarring. It took me a little while to accept that it was supposed to be the same character. I’m just going to tell myself he’s a facechanger, even thought I’m fairly certain he isn’t intended to be. On the other hand, I wouldn’t have noticed that there had been multiple Mountains if I hadn’t read it in one of these threads. He gets such little screen time that it’s easy to forget exactly what he looks like. Moreover, his appearance, other than being generally large and brutish, isn’t important. I’m consistently amazed at how well this show does dyads: Tyrion & Bronn = awesome; Arya & The Hound = awesome; last season’s Jaime & Brienne = awesome. There was definitely a lot of setup in this episode, but we also got some plot movement / character development. Arya has taken the next step towards badassery, and The Hound has a greater trust of her. (Cold blooded revenge and her own pony - what more could a girl want?) > [@clairobscur](#): > > He’s been back for presumably several weeks and only now he announces the arrival of the wildlings? I will have to watch it again to be sure, but I got the impression that the scene was more of a disciplinary hearing than an informational debriefing. I don’t think they would have known about the Half-Hand if Jon hadn’t already told them, so he has already given at least some of his story. So while he was recovering he probably told someone what he knew, leading to some anger over his apparently broken oaths. Then when he’s fully (or mostly) recovered, they get together to put him through what amounts to a trial. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/62 "2014-04-07T17:09:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > How comes the city watch commander ended up amongst the officers of the night watch? In Season 2, When Tyrion became acting hand, he fired Janos Slynt for the slaughter of Robert’s bastards and sent him north to the Wall, replacing him with Bronn – [http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0VXYz7cjGE](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0VXYz7cjGE) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/63 "2014-04-07T17:20:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’d assume, unless we are told otherwise, that Dany’s army has scouts and outriders out, since both Ser Barristan and Ser Jorah are seasoned knowledgeable warriors. Also, they mention that there is a crucified slave at every mile marker for the next 160 miles, so they’ve clearly are using scouts. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/64 "2014-04-07T17:28:09Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > -Jaime and the other lannisters : we don’t see him meet Tyrion, his father is hardly moved when Jaime tells him that there won’t be an heir to Casterly Rock, which is completely out of character, Cersei behaviour is hardly understandable. His father was so moved, he disowned him. I don’t expect tears from Tywin. He’s a coldhearted, iron-fisted hard man. And Cersei is a vain self-centered bitch who cares for herself and her children and everyone else can die in a fire as far as she’s concerned. Plus, she can screw other, prettier Lannister relatives who have all their hands. What does she want with that washed up has-been? Her reaction to Jaime’s return is totally in character. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/65 "2014-04-07T17:33:57Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > -Jaime and the other lannisters : we don’t see him meet Tyrion, his father is hardly moved when Jaime tells him that there won’t be an heir to Casterly Rock, which is completely out of character, Cersei behaviour is hardly understandable. > > -The viper : did they really need to add sex scenes and gratuitous violence in here? That’s as much minutes removed from the interesting parts of the show. Maybe they could find a more subtle way of exposing a character than having him stab someone’s wrist? It’s not like stabbing is otherwise lacking in this show. And I can watch boobs whenever I want on the internet. I’d rather have story when I watch a serie, thank you very much. > -I could go without cannibals. Again, they’re not obligated to put grisly scenes every other minute. More story, less butchery, please. > > So, i don’t think they did a good job tying the many knots (new characters, events during the recent weeks we didn’t see, new dynamics between characters, etc…). Fortunately, they won’t have to do that again, so I expect that the next episode (written by Martin, I believe) will be much better. All good points. You left out the great scene where Joffrey and Jaime were looking at the \*book of great Knights. \* ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/66 "2014-04-07T17:35:01Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I have no problem with the size of the dragons. They’re eating better, so they’re gonna grow more quickly. Well, for context, last season spanned four months at a minimum – Robb met a woman, impregnated her, and then she was killed in what appeared to be her second trimester – and the dragons never changed size the entire season. It’s hard to suspend disbelief that the dragons didn’t grow at all over four months, and then quadrupled in size over the next four weeks. > [@pancakes3](#): > > Dani […] announced that she’s done with nude scenes. Wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/67 "2014-04-07T17:50:31Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > - Cersei’s aged and really wouldn’t be much of a trophy bride even with her pedigree at this point (and kid baggage to boot). Kingslayer should just take a child bride, hole up in Casterly Rock and call it a life. I don’t understand the appeal of staying. He wanted to stay to pick back up with Cersei…who then rebuffed him. Now he is staying in order to either fill his “brave deeds book” or because Brienne is guilting him about his oath to protect Sansa.—probably a tiny bit of each. > [@pancakes3](#): > > - Sansa has had zero emotional development in 3 seasons. She’s as petulant and as ignorant as ever. I loathe her scenes. It makes sense because in opposite world (Westeros) everyone you want to live dies and everyone you wish death upon lives. If this keeps up, she’ll be the one sitting on the throne at the end and Melissandre is her handmaiden. I actually really like Sansa as a character. She started as a petulant girl who has had her entire life destroyed. I don’t understand seeing her as petulant or ignorant. The girl is depressed. > [@pancakes3](#): > > - Seems a bit foolhardy to invite anyone from the wronged Dorn family. The worst possible representative showed up, but even if the crown prince did show instead of the murderous bisexual, younger one, it still wouldn’t have been pleasant. The Lannisters–at least Tyrion seems to want to smooth things over. Isn’t Cersei’s daughter in Dorn as a hostage/betrothed to one of their royals? > [@pancakes3](#): > > - Tyrian… just have the affair. People have affairs all the time. What’s the big deal? Everyone knows the marriage is a sham anyway and now there aren’t any Starks around to take righteous indignation. Tyrion wants to protect Shae from being a pawn against him. If they start carrying on again, she assuredly would be–and Shae making her desperate bid for his affection actually accomplished that one thing he was trying to avoid when the other handmaiden so her coming out of his room and ran and told his sister. I think he is being tv show dumb regarding the relationship and he should have learned enough about Shae to know how to handle it by now. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/68 "2014-04-07T17:53:10Z")
The Lannisters HAVE to smooth things over. Joffrey might be king but really only has two of the seven kingdoms under control. The Martells from Dorne also have princess Myrcella since Tyrion sent her there in season 2 as a way to smooth things over. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/69 "2014-04-07T18:02:05Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > - I’m not interested in any love quadrangles involving Dani, especially after she’s announced that she’s done with nude scenes. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Wait, what? What? That’s very disappointing if true. I thought it was the Ros character that said she was done with nude scenes…so they killed her off. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/70 "2014-04-07T18:08:31Z")
Can someone break down the Targaryen family tree for me? From what I understand: Aegon - First one, conquered Westeros with dragons Whole bunch of descendants (how long did they rule before Robert took over?) The Mad King Raegar, his son? Danyrius and Gold-head, Raegar’s siblings? How does the Night’s Watch guy fit into that? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/71 "2014-04-07T18:12:47Z")
I’m not 100% sure but the nightswatch guy might be the mad kings granduncle. Everything else you said is right. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/72 "2014-04-07T18:14:21Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Tyrian… just have the affair. People have affairs all the time. What’s the big deal?. He doesn’t want to get caught. Remember, Tywin threatened to have her killed if he caught her hanging around. And Cersei has already tried to get her so Joffrey could torture her. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/73 "2014-04-07T18:19:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m not 100% sure but the nightswatch guy might be the mad kings granduncle. Everything else you said is right. Actually Aegon wasn’t the first Targaryen, just the first king. ---
**Author:** ![Premislaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f0a364/32.png) [@Premislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Premislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/74 "2014-04-07T18:23:52Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What? That’s very disappointing if true. It’s not true. It’s a rumor that has been already proven wrong last season but it’s still being kept alive by unscrupulous “reporting” on internet “news” sites. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/75 "2014-04-07T18:25:05Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Can someone break down the Targaryen family tree for me? From what I understand: > Aegon - First one, conquered Westeros with dragons > Whole bunch of descendants (how long did they rule before Robert took over?) > The Mad King > Raegar, his son? > Danyrius and Gold-head, Raegar’s siblings? > How does the Night’s Watch guy fit into that? Right. The Mad King was the last Targaryen king, after they had ruled for three hundred years or so (having shown up in Westeros with dragons and conquered everyone). He had three children that we know of: Rhaegar (described glowingly by Ser Barristan, hated and killed by Robert Baratheon, was married to Oberyn’s sister), (much younger) Viserys (killed by molten gold) and (younger still) Dany. Most people think that Dany is the last Targaryen, but it turns out that Maester Aemon is also a Targaryen, uncle or great uncle or something of the mad king. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/76 "2014-04-07T18:27:28Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > What does she want with that washed up has-been? Her reaction to Jaime’s return is totally in character. Before that scene, I think that the show had presented Jaime and Cersei as very much in love with each other, for all their other faults. I don’t think it’s yet clear whether in fact Cersei was never in love at all, or has fallen out of love, or is still in love but acting like an irrational bitch. All are possibilities I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/77 "2014-04-07T18:31:10Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > - Sansa has had zero emotional development in 3 seasons. She’s as petulant and as ignorant as ever. I strongly disagree. She started out as stupidly naive, thinking that she was going to marry her handsome prince and live in a castle and all of that. Then life dumped a massive amount of shit on her over and over again. Now she is scared and timid, but also starting to learn to play the game a bit herself, and to take her victories where they come. > [@](#): > > - Seems a bit foolhardy to invite anyone from the wronged Dorn family. The worst possible representative showed up, but even if the crown prince did show instead of the murderous bisexual, younger one, it still wouldn’t have been pleasant. I think that to not invite one of the major lords of the kingdom, the one who is currently more or less holding your granddaughter hostage, to a royal wedding would be a pretty serious breach of protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/78 "2014-04-07T19:49:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “Stop stabbing yourself”. > \ That made me laugh way too much! 😃 > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > \ > I actually really like Sansa as a character. She started as a petulant girl who has had her entire life destroyed. I don’t understand seeing her as petulant or ignorant. The girl is depressed.\ > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I strongly disagree. She started out as stupidly naive, thinking that she was going to marry her handsome prince and live in a castle and all of that. Then life dumped a massive amount of shit on her over and over again. Now she is scared and timid, but also starting to learn to play the game a bit herself, and to take her victories where they come.\ I think Sansa is stupid. That seems to be the over-arching characteristic of the Stark Family - they’re stupid. They get outplayed by the Lannisters at every turn because they’re just plain dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/79 "2014-04-07T20:13:35Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think Sansa is stupid. That seems to be the over-arching characteristic of the Stark Family - they’re stupid. They get outplayed by the Lannisters at every turn because they’re just plain dumb. I would not call them dumb. Naive, perhaps. Basically honest people trapped in a world built on lies and deceit. This is a dark world, and good doesn’t always win over evil. Not sure good ever wins over evil in Westeros. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/80 "2014-04-07T20:26:56Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Before that scene, I think that the show had presented Jaime and Cersei as very much in love with each other, for all their other faults. I don’t think it’s yet clear whether in fact Cersei was never in love at all, or has fallen out of love, or is still in love but acting like an irrational bitch. All are possibilities I suppose. Not so much in love that she didn’t bonk her cousin to get him to get the king all liquored up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=5)