# Game of Thrones 4.01 "Two Swords" 4/6/14 \[NO SPOILERS - See sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480 "2014-04-06T16:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/101 "2014-04-08T02:40:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What exactly was Brienne expecting Jamie to do? Sansa is legally married now, and Catelyn is dead so you couldn’t give her back anyways. I think she’s just kinda lost. She needs someone to follow, something to do. Renly, then Catelyn, then that weird connection to Jaime, who Catelyn hated. Girl be confused, understandably. What is my special purpose?! ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/102 "2014-04-08T02:55:09Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > - Tywin is sympathetic in a way. He just wants to have your typical, run of the mill, megalomaniacal dynastic rule and his kids are being so damn angsty and uncooperative. Tywin is never going to win a father of the year award, but telling your kids to stop having sex with each other or to stop falling in love with prostitutes isn’t exactly bad advice. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/103 "2014-04-08T03:00:26Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Tywin is never going to win a father of the year award, but telling your kids to stop having sex with each other or to stop falling in love with prostitutes isn’t exactly bad advice. His plan for Jamie also made a lot more sense than being a one handed kingsguard, and he did set up Tyrion with a nice cushy title and a hot wife. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/104 "2014-04-08T03:02:54Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Still feeling vague about the whole dragon thing. Daenerys hatched them in the pyre, so they see her as their mother, sorta. Except they still snapped at her because they’re still wild. I was watching with a couple of zoo keepers. We agreed afterwards that the big sleepy black dragon was displaying [food aggression](http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/treatment_of_food_possessive_dogs_is_about_finesse_not_force), and could benefit from cooperative feeding [training](http://www.activeenvironments.org/pdf/Manage_Monkey_Behavior_OWM.pdf). (Warning, PDF about monkeys.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/105 "2014-04-08T03:16:31Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I guess I’m just stuck on whether she’s more like an incredibly lucky snake handler or she has this on lockdown because damn it, she’s the mother of dragons. She is part dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/106 "2014-04-08T07:23:33Z")
Next week - Arya and the Hound approach a tavern. Voices from inside - ‘Hound comin! Hound y’all!’ Roast chickens are thrown from a window for Hound and Arya to bloodlessly take away. MiM ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/107 "2014-04-08T11:31:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think Sansa is stupid. That seems to be the over-arching characteristic of the Stark Family - they’re stupid. They get outplayed by the Lannisters at every turn because they’re just plain dumb. I think if you accept this position—that the Starks are simply stupid—then you’re missing out on a whole lot of the nuance and subtlety in the story. Almost none of the characters are “just plain” anything, particularly the important ones like the Starks. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/108 "2014-04-08T11:54:40Z")
More than that, it sort of makes sense that the northerners, those who have the hardest existance, turn to leadership who are basically good guys, who live by a code, who try to do right by those they rule. Living in the North is a struggle just to survive, and all of the backstabbing and civil wars and infighting would sidetrack preparation for the harshness of winter to a greater degree than it did elsewhere. They needed fair leadership and cooperation, because they had the strongest motivaton to unite to ensure their very survival. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/109 "2014-04-08T12:45:55Z")
That’s an excellent point, but Robb was utterly unprepared for the realities of leadership. He fought fiercely to take King’s Landing, kill Jeoffrey, and avenge his father. But he had no idea what he was going to do with King’s Landing when he was done with it. He let his victory in battle make him think he was invincible, so he pissed all over his diplomatic relationships. The other Starks might not be plainly stupid, but it’s hard for me to see Robb any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/110 "2014-04-08T13:27:40Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Wasn’t the second sword much shorter? I assumed Tyrion was going to get it because even though he’s the least important Lanister–he’s still a fucking Lannister and deserves a Valarian steel sword more than anyone else. But don’t you remember that Joffrey was the one that won the war? Everyone knows that. That’s why the people love him so much. Who was the guy that gave the necklace to Sansa and what story did he tell? Cad Jr. decided to make a lot of noise in the kitchen during that scene. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/111 "2014-04-08T13:48:58Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Who was the guy that gave the necklace to Sansa and what story did he tell? Cad Jr. decided to make a lot of noise in the kitchen during that scene. He was the drunk and disgraced knight who Joffrey wanted executed but Sansa saved by saying that it was bad luck to kill someone on their name/birth-day so he was only demoted to jester. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/112 "2014-04-08T14:07:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > She is part dragon. How does that even work? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/113 "2014-04-08T14:07:35Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > That’s an excellent point, but Robb was utterly unprepared for the realities of leadership. He fought fiercely to take King’s Landing, kill Jeoffrey, and avenge his father. But he had no idea what he was going to do with King’s Landing when he was done with it. He let his victory in battle make him think he was invincible, so he pissed all over his diplomatic relationships. The other Starks might not be plainly stupid, but it’s hard for me to see Robb any other way. He was also a teenager who’s father had been killed. I’d say his actions were characteristic of such. He made some mistakes, but I wouldn’t call him stupid. * * * Some people have mentioned scouting, or lack thereof with Dany’s army. Keep in mind that although this episode’s CGI focused on the unsullied she also has cavalry. Dario joined her with a small army of horseman mercenaries which would make excellent scouts for her infantry. I don’t think anyone is taking them by surprise along the march. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/114 "2014-04-08T14:08:11Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > That’s an excellent point, but Robb was utterly unprepared for the realities of leadership. … > > But he had no idea what he was going to do with King’s Landing when he was done with it. Even of that’s 100 percent true, it doesn’t support the claim that he was “just stupid” or “dumb.” > [@](#): > > He let his victory in battle make him think he was invincible, I don’t think we have evidence to believe that he thought he was invincible. > [@](#): > > so he pissed all over his diplomatic relationships. “Pissed all over” suggests he did it callously or capriciously. I don’t think that’s at all true. In each case, Robb knows he is faces with a difficult choice but in the end he believes he’s doing what’s right. His reasoning is not entirely false. He rightly believes that an effective King must set a good example. And there is plenty of evidence that he is popular and effective. In the end his choices turn out to be wrong in some cases but not necessarily because they were stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/115 "2014-04-08T14:09:11Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > How does that even work? I don’t think we have reason to believe that this is literally true. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/116 "2014-04-08T14:16:59Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > How does that even work? Parts of her are hot?? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/117 "2014-04-08T14:23:19Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > > Who was the guy that gave the necklace to Sansa and what story did he tell? Cad Jr. decided to make a lot of noise in the kitchen during that scene. > > He was the drunk and disgraced knight who Joffrey wanted executed but Sansa saved by saying that it was bad luck to kill someone on their name/birth-day so he was only demoted to jester. Note that they showed the scene in which Sansa talked Joffrey out of killing him in the “previously on” bit at the beginning of the episode. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/118 "2014-04-08T14:47:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think we have reason to believe that this is literally true. She’s invulnerable to fire/heat. Also, wasn’t her baby kind of scaly? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/119 "2014-04-08T15:05:52Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > She’s invulnerable to fire/heat. Also, wasn’t her baby kind of scaly? “There’s magic involved” seems a much more logical explanation than that she is literally descended from a dragon. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/120 "2014-04-08T15:33:26Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Executing Lord Karstark instead of keeping him as a bargaining chip. Bargaining chip? Bargaining with whom? Karstark openly, brazenly defied him and murdered prisoners. Failing to punish him shows that he is weak. No matter what he did in response, the Karstarks were already lost. By following the law and executing him, he cemented the loyalty of the other non-Karstark northmen. It was a difficult situation, but it was the smartest decision. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=7)