# Game of Thrones 4.01 "Two Swords" 4/6/14 \[NO SPOILERS - See sticky\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 6, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480 "2014-04-06T16:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/161 "2014-04-08T18:04:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m a bit puzzled by Jorah’s line : “Dragons cannot be tamed, even by their mother”. Didn’t the Targaryens use to ride them bitches into battle ? Did they just hold on for dear life while the dragons did what they felt like roasting, then did that cat thing where you look at people like the dumb thing that just happened was _exactly_ what you were going for ? Maybe you could ride them into battle because, hey, Dragons like battles. But if you tried to ride them up and down the coastline twice a week as part of a scheduled courier service, then they’d go eat some sheep instead. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/162 "2014-04-08T18:05:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, I’m guessing the fool’s necklace will become the wedge between Sansa and house Tyrell when Margaery wantsit wantsit wantsitNOW ? That, or Shae will believe it’s a gift from Tyrion and blow another gasket. Perhaps it’s not a coincidence that Sansa received the gift of a necklace in the same episode in which Margery was shopping for one for the wedding? But the one that was given to Sansa didn’t look like anything special. Perhaps it will turn out to be made of Valerian steel or be enchanted or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![kath94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/67e7ee/32.png) [@kath94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kath94)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/163 "2014-04-08T18:13:17Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Starks and Lannisters didn’t get their sigil because they thought their ancestors were wolves or lions. Nor did their ancestors ride upon magical lions or wolves. Nor do they have magical powers intimately related to their sigils. > > It’s a silly comparison. It’s possible that Dany’s magic came just completely at random, and just happens to intimately coincide with her family’s historical abilities and mythology, but that’d be a pretty huge coincidence and bad storytelling, so at this junction it’s a pretty reasonable assumption that dragon magic and the targaryens are related. Muggles, Mud Bloods, Squibs, etc. :rolleyes: Who cares? Just go along for the ride. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/164 "2014-04-08T18:15:00Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The show strongly points to there being a magical link between Targaryen blood and dragons, a link manifested strongly in Dany and presumably much less strongly in Viserys. How you get from that to her being “part dragon” is unclear to me. I consider the two functionally the same. If it’s just the semantics of not literally being part dragon, but instead that they are magically linked to dragons, sure, I concede the point. “Magically linked to dragons” and “part dragon” pretty much mean the same thing to me. The only relevant part is that either way you end up being imbued with traits of the dragon. (Which I refer to in shorthand as “part dragon.”) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/165 "2014-04-08T18:16:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > [ul][li]She’s immune to heat and fire[/li][li]She gave birth to a (stillborn) scaly half-dragon baby[/li][li]She communes with dragons[/li][li]She intuitively knew how to hatch the ancient dragon eggs[/li][li]Her family history is closely tied to dragons[/ul][/li] The first one is a characteristic only SHE personally possessed, if she was part dragon so would be her brother. The second was a direct result of trusting an actual witch who did actual magic and had plenty of reason to hate her, and her unborn child. Third and fourth are true but they don’t apply to any other Targaryen in the however many years it has been since anyone had dragons, that is just her specifically being “special”. And i disagree that she knew what she was doing when she hatched the dragons, there was nothing that points to this and she seemed pretty surprised herself. If anything i would imagine the whole thing was an attempt to bring back Drogo, not hatch the eggs. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/166 "2014-04-08T18:19:51Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I consider the two functionally the same. If it’s just the semantics of not literally being part dragon, but instead that they are magically linked to dragons, sure, I concede the point. > > “Magically linked to dragons” and “part dragon” pretty much mean the same thing to me. Are the Starks part direwolf then? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/167 "2014-04-08T18:23:37Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I consider the two functionally the same. If it’s just the semantics of not literally being part dragon, but instead that they are magically linked to dragons, sure, I concede the point. > > “Magically linked to dragons” and “part dragon” pretty much mean the same thing to me. ) Semantics are pretty important on the SDMB and they might end up being important in the Game of Thrones. I suggest it pays to be precise, especially when you’re wading into the fray with pop culture fanatics. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/168 "2014-04-08T18:27:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Semantics are pretty important on the SDMB and they might end up being important in the Game of Thrones. I suggest it pays to be precise, especially when you’re wading into the fray with pop culture fanatics. One would think a grasp of the concept of recessive traits would also be something found on the SDMB, but apparently not. > [@DigitalC](#): > > if she was part dragon so would be her brother ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/169 "2014-04-08T18:27:36Z")
Another good one from Bronn was when they were talking about Oberyn arriving early and heading for a brothel. Tyrion asked Bronn what he’d do if he’d just spent two weeks on a bad road. “I’d probably go to sleep, but I’m gettin’ old.” I like the theory (not that we need one) about a Targaryen being bitten by a dragon. Are the Baratheons connected to Targaryens? I’m thinking of Stannis’s daughter, the one with the scales on her face. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/170 "2014-04-08T18:28:39Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Are the Starks part direwolf then? Do the Starks possess traits of the direwolf? Night vision? Heightened sense of smell? Anything? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/171 "2014-04-08T18:31:29Z")
About Dany being part dragon, I’d say certainly not. She has hereditary magic, an affinity for Dragons. Just like worgs have an innate magical ability to jump into animals, and probably like wizards have to have magical aptitude (I assume on that last one, maybe anyone can learn spells). I assume her ancestors found out that they have this hereditary kinship and eventually that lead to Aegon coming down with his sisters and winning himself a continent. Note that the Targaryans marry their siblings. Why? To conserve and ensure a monopoly on this trait. No need for it to be literally the result of a dragon-human pairing. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/172 "2014-04-08T18:32:52Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, I’m guessing the fool’s necklace will become the wedge between Sansa and house Tyrell when Margaery wantsit wantsit wantsitNOW ? That, or Shae will believe it’s a gift from Tyrion and blow another gasket. Remember when Poggle’s cocksmanship was so impressive that the whores wouldn’t take his money? The SDMB spent pages debating what that scene meant and how it would come back at some point–when ultimately it looks like it was just meant to be a funny bit. I’m thinking the necklace either comes up again with Margaery (maybe she uses some Queen-to-be swagger to have it taken from Sansa) or the scene was just there to remind us that Sansa isn’t always a mope and is never really referred to again. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/173 "2014-04-08T18:40:01Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > He had to ally with the Frey’s regardless, because he had to cross the Twins to get where he needed to be. And he was going to need the Frey army regardless. Breaking the alliance with Walder Frey was obviously a terrible move, certainly, but it’s likely that the red wedding would have happened either way. No he didn’t, he was already south of the Twins in Riverrun . He wanted to attack Casterly Rock, which is also south of the Twins. But with the Karstarks gone,a nd half his fighting force, he had to find other allies, and the Freys were really the only option. The reason they found it necessary to cross the Twins originally was for a strategic reason, if they were heading back north they could easily avoid the Twins. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/174 "2014-04-08T18:48:04Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Remember when Poggle’s cocksmanship was so impressive [snip] Podrick. Pod to his friends. Pod the Tripod to his ladyfriends. I’ll be sure to steal “cocksmanship” though. That is a lovely word :). Not enough Varys in this episode, now that I’m re-watching it. I knew something was missing - condescending ice burns. Every show should have Varys pretty much all of the time. Can you imagine “The Daily Show with Lord Varys” ? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/175 "2014-04-08T18:48:29Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > About Dany being part dragon, I’d say certainly not. > > She has hereditary magic, an affinity for Dragons. Just like worgs have an innate magical ability to jump into animals, and probably like wizards have to have magical aptitude (I assume on that last one, maybe anyone can learn spells). > > I assume her ancestors found out that they have this hereditary kinship and eventually that lead to Aegon coming down with his sisters and winning himself a continent. > > Note that the Targaryans marry their siblings. Why? To conserve and ensure a monopoly on this trait. No need for it to be literally the result of a dragon-human pairing. Being part dragon does not require a dragon-human pairing. Hereditary magic, an affinity for dragons is a perfectly acceptable definition for what being “part dragon” means. Consider Kevin Costner’s character in Waterworld. Assuming his newly evolved gills get passed on to his descendants, it would be fair and reasonable to call them part fish despite his mother never fucking a fish. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/176 "2014-04-08T18:49:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not enough Varys in this episode, now that I’m re-watching it. I knew something was missing - condescending ice burns. Every show should have Varys pretty much all of the time. Can you imagine “The Daily Show with Lord Varys” ? 😃 That’s called The Colbert Report. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/177 "2014-04-08T19:05:28Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Are the Baratheons connected to Targaryens? I’m thinking of Stannis’s daughter, the one with the scales on her face. The disfiguration comes from a common infectious disease. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Consider Kevin Costner’s character in Waterworld. Assuming his newly evolved gills get passed on to his descendants, it would be fair and reasonable to call them part fish despite his mother never fucking a fish. It most certainly would not be fair nor reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/178 "2014-04-08T19:29:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It most certainly would not be fair nor reasonable. I will agree to disagree with you on this point. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/179 "2014-04-08T19:51:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Starks and Lannisters didn’t get their sigil because they thought their ancestors were wolves or lions. Nor did their ancestors ride upon magical lions or wolves. Nor do they have magical powers intimately related to their sigils. > > It’s a silly comparison. It’s possible that Dany’s magic came just completely at random, and just happens to intimately coincide with her family’s historical abilities and mythology, but that’d be a pretty huge coincidence and bad storytelling, so at this junction it’s a pretty reasonable assumption that dragon magic and the targaryens are related. That is a pretty reasonable assumption, but still going from that to being part dragon seems like a logic jump that is not supported by anything in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480/180 "2014-04-08T20:02:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Do the Starks possess traits of the direwolf? Night vision? Heightened sense of smell? Anything? Well, at least one of them kinda/sorta does. The kid that can’t walk now–Bran? Rik? (I’m bad with names) has demonstrated some ability to take on wolf-like traits in his dreams and/or somehow mind control animals. Warging? Some word that sounds like that. We know some wildlings seem to be able to do it as well. It’s not exactly the same as being part-animal. Dany seems a closer call. She’s apparently immune to fire. That could come from magic, or it could come from some form of dragon dna. We just don’t know for sure and may never know, unless she polymorphs into Tiamat or somesuch one day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-01-two-swords-4-6-14-no-spoilers-see-sticky/685480.md?page=10)