# Game of Thrones 4.02 "The Lion and the Rose" 4/13/14 \[NO SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016 "2014-04-13T14:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/301 "2014-04-15T21:35:06Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > For all those people who may not know, there is a site that contains some very brief biographical info on all the characters in the story together with the correct spelling of their names. > > However, I’m not sure whether I should post a link to this site because the sticky for this thread says there is not to be any “outside info” used in this thread. > > Can anyone please advise me whether it is OK to post a link to that site? I guess it depends on what source the bio info is coming from. If it’s merely up to date TV bio info then I don’t see how it could be a problem. Otherwise just give lots of warning and/or a spoiler box in your post. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/302 "2014-04-15T21:36:19Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Strictly speaking, for non-book readers, spelling of names is up for grabs. Character names aren’t displayed in the credits, and this is a society that’s not big on literature or even signage. (They love their heraldry though.) Characters’ names are written out all the time in closed captioning. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/303 "2014-04-15T21:41:10Z")
There doesn’t seem to be much sympathy for Tyrion and that surprises me. He is pretty much innocent of all the serious crimes he is accused of. This poor guy was given a real serious strike against him right out of the chute and has lived his life just trying to have as good a time as he could. If he wasn’t rich, he would have had a hard time trying to bed a lot of women and he has taken full advantage of having money to bed as many as he could. I can’t blame him one tiny bit. If I was Tyrion, I would live in exactly the same way as he does. Who wouldn’t. Can anyone here tell me they would not live in the same way that Tyrion does? My heart goes out to the guy. I hope he beds all the women in Westeros and really enjoys himself doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/304 "2014-04-15T21:43:49Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Strictly speaking, for non-book readers, spelling of names is up for grabs. Character names aren’t displayed in the credits, and this is a society that’s not big on literature or even signage. (They love their heraldry though.) This is a strange thought. There are official spellings, even for TV shows, you can easily see them at the HBO Game of Thrones website. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/305 "2014-04-15T21:44:31Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I believe you are correct. Does Lysa look anything like Selyse? I had never previously heard of Selyse and can’t ever recall her appearing in any prior episode. Uh, that was her in the room full of jars of dead babies. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/306 "2014-04-15T21:44:41Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > OK. Thank you. I guess I got the two of them mixed up. > > I couldn’t figure out just what Catelyn’s sister would have been doing in this episode. It was very puzzling. > > However, if anyone knows, I’d still like to know just what that scene was about where that man was burned at the stake. I know that I recognized him from some prior episode. If anyone can explain, I sure would like to know how he fit into this episode and how the scene of his being burned … what did that have to do with this episode? Did it fit in at all with Joff’s wedding or assassination? The men being burned were heretics - one was Selyse’s brother in fact. Don’t think they were seen before, or if so they were spear-carriers (dramatically speaking). You should know that Lysa’s place is the new destination that the Hound intends to take Arya to (now that her mom and brother are gone) and try to collect a ransom. So we may see her again soon - on the other hand, those two have a way of getting their plans thwarted. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/307 "2014-04-15T21:44:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I guess it depends on what source the bio info is coming from. If it’s merely up to date TV bio info then I don’t see how it could be a problem. Otherwise just give lots of warning and/or a spoiler box in your post. I sent you a PM listing the site. This might be a lot of overkill. But I want to be careful that I don’t mess up. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/308 "2014-04-15T21:47:24Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > The men being burned were heretics - one was Selyse’s brother in fact. Don’t think they were seen before, or if so they were spear-carriers (dramatically speaking). > > You should know that Lysa’s place is the new destination that the Hound intends to take Arya to (now that her mom and brother are gone) and try to collect a ransom. So we may see her again soon - on the other hand, those two have a way of getting their plans thwarted. Indeed. It may not seem very comical. But lately, most every scene in which they are involved seems like comic relief. Arya has become one of my most favorite characters. Isn’t she great? Meanwhile her poor sister Sansa just seems to sit through every episode in a state of shock. I sure would love to see her get some payback one day soon. She certainly would deserve that. Poor girl! She started out intending to marry her handsome prince - Joffrey! But just look how things worked out for her. Now she is forced to marry someone who a young girl would consider to be very horrible. I just hope she is sufficiently mature to recognize that true love doesn’t necessarily depend on looks and that one day she may find a true love - independant of the way he looks. There is so little happiness or joy in GRRM’s books. I sure do hope he never writes anything about me. Yikes! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/309 "2014-04-15T21:49:00Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > However, if anyone knows, I’d still like to know just what that scene was about where that man was burned at the stake. I know that I recognized him from some prior episode. If anyone can explain, I sure would like to know how he fit into this episode and how the scene of his being burned … what did that have to do with this episode? Did it fit in at all with Joff’s wedding or assassination? I didn’t recognize him but he was probably in some other scenes at Dragonstone. I don’t believe he was named in the show. I don’t think the scene had any relationship to Joff’s wedding – it was there to show that Melissandre is still burning people, she’s still in control of Stannis, who hasn’t done anything about Davos’ warning last season about a threat from the North. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/310 "2014-04-15T21:51:02Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > There doesn’t seem to be much sympathy for Tyrion and that surprises me. > > He is pretty much innocent of all the serious crimes he is accused of. > > This poor guy was given a real serious strike against him right out of the chute and has lived his life just trying to have as good a time as he could. If he wasn’t rich, he would have had a hard time trying to bed a lot of women and he has taken full advantage of having money to bed as many as he could. > > I can’t blame him one tiny bit. If I was Tyrion, I would live in exactly the same way as he does. Who wouldn’t. > > Can anyone here tell me they would not live in the same way that Tyrion does? My heart goes out to the guy. I hope he beds all the women in Westeros and really enjoys himself doing that. The one thing that seems to temper some of the sympathy for Tyrion is how he seemed to act to reinforce his awful families place of prominence. Not that he had a choice, but for much of the show, while he was witty and charming and smart, he was still a Lannister. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/311 "2014-04-15T21:53:48Z")
AuntiePam & Gangster Octopus, Thank you both very much for the info. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/312 "2014-04-15T21:55:01Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > This is a strange thought. There are official spellings, even for TV shows, you can easily see them at the HBO Game of Thrones website. Real TV fans don’t do websites. But I will accept Ellis Dee’s comment that the names are spelled out in closed captions as semi-official data to be considered allowable in the TV universe. Not everyone sees them, but they exist. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/313 "2014-04-15T22:13:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh, come now. Give him a little credit : Joffrey was a hopeless romantic. He would have wanted his wedding night to be special, not humdrum skull-buggery. It was his wife’s first (to the best of his knowledge) after all. He would have wanted to treat her right. Make it memorable. > What I mean is, have you ever seen [Salò](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal%C3%B2,_or_the_120_Days_of_Sodom) by any chance ? 😛 Supposedly, the character Joffrey was based, in part, on Caligula. So I suppose things could have gotten much worse. I was horrified that he might actually rape Sansa on her wedding night. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/314 "2014-04-15T22:20:31Z")
Just for the hell of it, some science was discussed on one of my favorite YT channels discussing the possibilities of the seasonal variablility in Westeros. [Why is Winter Coming (Game of Thrones) - Deep Sky Videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKrn4P4c5ps) ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/315 "2014-04-15T22:32:16Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Arya has become one of my most favorite characters. Isn’t she great? One reason I hope she makes it to Aunt Lysa’s castle is to see what she and and her cousin Robin make of each other. They are both children as far as age goes, but one has gotten a hard-knocks education and has even killed a guy, while the other is coddled to the point of insanity. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/316 "2014-04-15T22:40:34Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I don’t think we have any information on whether widowed-wife-of-previous-king-who-presumably-had-sex-with-him would be for any reason disqualified as wife-of-new-king, at least from a legal standpoint. > As far as whether the Lannisters would want Margaery to marry Tommen, well, all of the leverage that was there before is still there. If the Tyrells take their grain and go home, the capital is still in a terrible shape. So if that alliance made sense before, it makes sense now (as long as the Lannisters don’t think the Tyrells are poisoners). It was specifically raised on a past episode and it was specifically “testified to” by Margaery that her and Renly never consummated the marriage and therefore “legally” they were never married. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/317 "2014-04-15T22:49:57Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > It was specifically raised on a past episode and it was specifically “testified to” by Margaery that her and Renly never consummated the marriage and therefore “legally” they were never married. Right, but we don’t know whether that made it POSSIBLE for her to marry Joffrey or whether it made it EASIER for her to marry Joffrey. (Plus being legally married to a traitor vs being legally married to the older brother are potentially very different things.) (But yes, that line of thought does seem to argue that IF the poisoners were some of the Tyrells and IF their plan is for Margaery to just move on down to Tommen, THEN it makes sense for the wedding not to be consummated.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/318 "2014-04-15T23:24:36Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I didn’t recognize him but he was probably in some other scenes at Dragonstone. I don’t believe he was named in the show. Davos gave his name, Axel Florent. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/319 "2014-04-15T23:42:17Z")
I don’t feel sorry for Tyrion, framed though it appears he has been. He’s smart and scrappy and perpetually underestimated, and I bet he’ll do OK. > [@Wolverine](#): > > Game of Thrones on Facebook recap for Season 4 Episode 2 is now up. > > [link](http://happyplace.someecards.com/30620/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-2) > > Jack Gleason: I’m never acting again. > “Fame, Power, and Money are skeptical of this” Thanks. That was fun. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/320 "2014-04-15T23:48:12Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > There doesn’t seem to be much sympathy for Tyrion and that surprises me. > > He is pretty much innocent of all the serious crimes he is accused of.\ I feel very badly about how he was treated at the wedding, and ending up getting accused of Regicide, but he has shown again and again that he lands on his feet - I’d be a lot more worried about any other character than Tyrion. > [@Vashbul](#): > > \ > You should know that Lysa’s place is the new destination that the Hound intends to take Arya to (now that her mom and brother are gone) and try to collect a ransom. So we may see her again soon - on the other hand, those two have a way of getting their plans thwarted. I’m waiting impatiently for that - it will be very interesting to see how Arya reacts to her Aunt Lysa trying to domesticate her again. 😃 > [@Vashbul](#): > > One reason I hope she makes it to Aunt Lysa’s castle is to see what she and and her cousin Robin make of each other. They are both children as far as age goes, but one has gotten a hard-knocks education and has even killed a guy, while the other is coddled to the point of insanity. Killed “a” guy? I think her body count is four now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016.md?page=17)