# Game of Thrones 4.02 "The Lion and the Rose" 4/13/14 \[NO SPOILERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016 "2014-04-13T14:48:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/401 "2014-04-17T04:05:58Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Two or three more weddings and there will be no more original characters on the series, kind of like the final years of E.R… So Tyrion’s final scene is going to be a voice-over letter from a Summer Isles beach? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/402 "2014-04-17T04:59:31Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Two or three more weddings and there will be no more original characters on the series, kind of like the final years of E.R… Tell me about it. People of a certain social standing in Westeros are going to come to regard a marriage proposal as the functional equivalent of a murder threat. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/403 "2014-04-17T06:22:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Shagga (where has \*he \*gone ? I liked him) Varys tells Tyrion that after the Battle of Blackwater Tywin paid all of the hill tribesmen and then sent them back to their homes in the mountains of the Vale. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/404 "2014-04-17T08:01:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Is Tyrion speaking the truth ? Or just saying hurtful things to make her leave ? That bit reminded me of Arya throwing rocks at Nymeria to make her run away. I interpreted it as an act. He doesn’t want to hurt her, but even more, he doesn’t want her killed by his father. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/405 "2014-04-17T08:17:40Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Best guess, for various reasons, was that Olenna was the culprit. She had the access - Joffrey took a swig, put down the cup right in front of her, and then there was a distraction. The only other ones who could’ve pulled it off were Margaery and possibly Tyrion. But when Tyrion went to go pick up the cup again, the camera lingered on Olenna, and she had a face that sort of suggested she realized Tyrion was going to get the blame and she didn’t feel good about it. I agree, with Ser Dantos as accessory. The camera focused right on her as the Septon said “Woe be unto he who would tear them asunder” or words to that effect, she apparently took a crystal from Sansa’s necklace, the cup was set down right next to her as the camera focused on her again, and focused on the look on her face as she stared at Joffrey when he started drinking again, and Ser Dantos telling Sansa “If you want to live, you have to leave now”. And where have we seen a wine-cup-poisoning death like that before? Back when Maester Cressen tried to kill Melisandre. I don’t know if we got to see what the poison looked like in that case. I also agree that it sucks that Tyrion is taking the fall for it, I hope he emerges as unscathed as possible. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/406 "2014-04-17T13:34:56Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Maybe, maybe. Don’t remember any stable boy - did he have it coming? The Robb’s-head-sewing guy, I say no. Was there another one at the Inn? “It all happened so fast, Officer.” 1. The stable boy directly after Jamie’s attack on Ned… yes he definitely had it coming but it was a semi-accident. 2. She stabbed the braggart at the campfire like 6 times… she definitely killed him not the hound. 3 and 4. She definitely killed the guy who took her sword “needle” and attacked another, not sure if he died or not. So 3 DEFINITELY, maybe a fourth. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/407 "2014-04-17T13:40:49Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Technically, Craster didn’t kill his children, either. He simply left the boys for the White Walkers. We don’t actually know what happened to them after that… I think that by most definitions of the world “kill” - letter or spirit of the law - in nearly any society, leaving an infant in the bitter cold to a known predator would qualify. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/408 "2014-04-17T14:40:22Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > 1. The stable boy directly after Jamie’s attack on Ned… yes he definitely had it coming but it was a semi-accident. Yeah, didn’t he pretty much run into the sword? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/409 "2014-04-17T15:22:46Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Yeah, didn’t he pretty much run into the sword? Not quite. She was rummaging for her sword in a overturned trunk and as the kid grabs her, she turns and says “stay away” and slides the sword into him. Sort of accidental, I guess. short clip: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3tu5Wfp34](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb3tu5Wfp34) ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/410 "2014-04-17T15:37:02Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > 1. The stable boy directly after Jamie’s attack on Ned… yes he definitely had it coming but it was a semi-accident. > > 2. She stabbed the braggart at the campfire like 6 times… she definitely killed him not the hound. > > 3 and 4. She definitely killed the guy who took her sword “needle” and attacked another, not sure if he died or not. > > So 3 DEFINITELY, maybe a fourth. Alright, you guys win. Campfire guy was dead and Arya did it; the Hound even asked "was that the first man you killed?. Answer, “The first man”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/411 "2014-04-17T17:50:27Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That’s an interesting idea. Revenge for the murder of Catelyn Stark is a plausible motive for his involvement. I like that idea - we just re-watched the second and third episodes of the whole show last night, and LittleFinger was definitely carrying a big ol’ torch for Catelyn still. Plus, I agree with everyone who is saying that LittleFinger is all about the chaos. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Tell me about it. People of a certain social standing in Westeros are going to come to regard a marriage proposal as the functional equivalent of a murder threat. {Homer Simpson}I’ll marry you good!{/HS} ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/412 "2014-04-17T18:38:03Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Not revenge for Ros, but possibly revenge for Catlyn Starke. He always carried a torch for her. She was killed at a wedding, and if Little Finger wanted revenge he may have chosen to off Joffrey at one too. I don’t know exactly what will happen in the aftermath of the death of young King Joffrey, but it’s likely to destabilize a kingdom that was finally approaching peace. As Little Finger’s speech in “The Ladder” proves, he see chaos as a means for advancement. > > My money is still on the Tyrells, though. They had at least some motive, and had by far the most obvious means and opportunity. Olenna paid for all the food; she would have had an easy time arranging a little Milk of the Hemlock for Joffrey’s pie. The dialogue ([and one of the bests dialogues so far in the series…NSFW after 2:30 where Ros is shown with crossbow bolt adornments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAqvyCYr1Cc)) alone between Varys and Littlefinger is enough to make one or both of them suspects as well in Joffrey’s death. I can see either of these two repeat their justifications if they were pressed to respond to (future) accusations regarding the king’s death. Varys: “I did what I did for the good of the realm” Littlefinger: “Chaos isn’t a pit…Chaos is a ladder” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/413 "2014-04-17T21:44:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Tell me about it. People of a certain social standing in Westeros are going to come to regard a marriage proposal as the functional equivalent of a murder threat. - I’ve always hated the bells. They ring for horrors. A dead King, a city under siege… - A wedding… - Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/414 "2014-04-17T21:47:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > - I’ve always hated the bells. They ring for horrors. A dead King, a city under siege… > - A wedding… > - Exactly. I forgot about that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/415 "2014-04-17T23:12:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > From what has been shown or discussed in the show, how would you equate the regions of GoT with regions of earth? > > I pose: > > […] > > Dorne: Spain In the first episode, Dornish people have garnments reminiscent of the arab world. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/416 "2014-04-17T23:26:22Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Had he wanted to straight up kill a bitch he’d have had Bronn or Shagga (where has \*he \*gone ? I liked him) Shagga and his ilk were paid by Tywin Lanister and sent back to their lands while Tyrion was in a coma following his wound in season 2. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/417 "2014-04-17T23:40:23Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Well I think some viewers overestimate Tyrion because we like him and give him the benefit of the doubt. Objectively, Tyrion is probably just merely of above average intelligence as expected of a nobleman but has huge vice-plagued strikes against him such as boozing, whoring, and his imp-udence. I believe the show goes out of its way to establish that Tyrion is particularly smart. He says so several times, he read books (about sieges, about kings, etc…) all the time, he comes up with a design for a saddle, he figures out for Jon Snow what are the issues at Castle Black, he convinces the barbarians not to kill him but to join his father’s army instead, he outwits everybody in conversations, he prepares victorious battle plans, and so on, and so on… I think we’re expected to assume he’s extremely intelligent. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/418 "2014-04-17T23:42:48Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Maester Pycelle is an idiot (best example is his estimation of how Joffrey would be as a king in his talk to Roz) so you can’t really go on that position meaning that much in terms of wisdom or capability. > . My take is that he _pretends_ to be an idiot, in the same way he pretends to be crippled. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/419 "2014-04-18T00:38:51Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > In the first episode, Dornish people have garnments reminiscent of the arab world. Mediaeval Spain was ruled by Arab-influenced North African Muslims for centuries and its language and culture were heavily influenced by the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016/420 "2014-04-18T00:38:54Z")
I was thinkng it was maybe a nut allergy? No? okay … 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-02-the-lion-and-the-rose-4-13-14-no-spoilers/686016.md?page=22)