# Game of Thrones 4.03 "Breaker of Chains" 4/20/14 \[No spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573 "2014-04-21T01:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/21 "2014-04-21T14:09:58Z")
Can someone summarize Tyrion’s scene? My DVR choose the one scene I actually cared about to have a little freakout. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/22 "2014-04-21T14:17:55Z")
Pod tells him who his judges are going to be (Tywin, Mace Tyrell and surprisingly Oberyn Martell), that he needs to give him a list of witnesses that can speak for him. Tyrion offers up Sansa as the only name, only to find out she disappeared right after the wedding making him look even more guilty. Then he asks Pod to bring him Jamie and Bronn, Pod tells him Bronn is not allowed to see him but he will get Jamie. As he is walking off he pauses for a second and tells Tyrion someone came to see him and offered him a bribe to testify that Tyrion bought the poison used on Joffrey, Tyrion tells him that if he doesn’t accept the bribe next will come with threats and to get out of King’s Landing. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/23 "2014-04-21T14:21:28Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Can someone summarize Tyrion’s scene? My DVR choose the one scene I actually cared about to have a little freakout. If you mean the jail cell scene, Pod brought in some food and brought Tyrion up to speed on current events. Sansa’s location , unknown. Bronn under suspicion for being a known accomplice. Who his judges are going to be and when the trial is. Lastly that he had been approached to testify against Tyrion. Tyrion then dismisses him from service, in the hopes that if things go pear shaped, then he can at least make sure that Pod was covered. Declan ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/24 "2014-04-21T14:29:00Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/25 "2014-04-21T14:35:32Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Per Alan Sepinwall’s interview with the director, [Alex Graves](http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-game-of-thrones-breaker-of-chains-uncle-deadly), it was intended to be seen as consensual by the end of the interaction. That certainly didn’t come across to me. But I’m interested in the apparent notion that so long as you can get a “yes” before your done it isn’t so rapey any more. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/26 "2014-04-21T14:37:55Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > New Daario’s David v. Goliath was a scene that didn’t work for me, or Daeny’s speech (which if I were a Mereen nobleman I’d have ordered horns blown during). Anyone else? You have to admit that the slave collar shrapnel was a nice touch though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/27 "2014-04-21T14:41:07Z")
And my voice to the choir: if that scene wasn’t supposed to be rape, somebody messed it up, because it sure looked like rape. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/28 "2014-04-21T14:42:10Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > the apparent notion that so long as you can get a “yes” before your done it isn’t so rapey any more. See also, _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/29 "2014-04-21T14:53:04Z")
Most of GoT is just setting up the chess pieces, but even as filler episodes go, it still felt like there was more progress here then the normal mid-season episode of this show. Also, Podrick’s last name is Payne, as in Ser Illyn Payne, the Denogginizer? Is this the first time we’ve heard that? What’s the connection there? Also, where did Pod come from? I honestly don’t remember him ever getting introduced. It seemed like he just showed up work for Tyrion on day. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/30 "2014-04-21T15:02:56Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Littlefinger’s accent has always bothered me. It’s so over the top and forced that it takes me out of the scene every single time. Really? Tyrion’s fake accent does that to me. Are we to presume that Joffry’s little bro is also 100% Lannister (if you know what I mean), given the blond hair? ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/31 "2014-04-21T15:03:11Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Most of GoT is just setting up the chess pieces, but even as filler episodes go, it still felt like there was more progress here then the normal mid-season episode of this show. > > Also, Podrick’s last name is Payne, as in Ser Illyn Payne, the Denogginizer? Is this the first time we’ve heard that? What’s the connection there? Also, where did Pod come from? I honestly don’t remember him ever getting introduced. It seemed like he just showed up work for Tyrion on day. Here’s what the show wiki says: > [@](#): > > Podrick Payne is a distant cousin of the more famous Ser Ilyn Payne, the King’s Justice, and member of a lesser branch of House Payne. He has been made a squire to Tyrion Lannister, and hopes to one day complete his training and become a knight. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are we to presume that Joffry’s little bro is also 100% Lannister (if you know what I mean), given the blond hair? You don’t have to presume anything, they’ve said that all three are born of incest. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/32 "2014-04-21T15:04:40Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Also, Podrick’s last name is Payne, as in Ser Illyn Payne, the Denogginizer? Is this the first time we’ve heard that? What’s the connection there? Also, where did Pod come from? I honestly don’t remember him ever getting introduced. It seemed like he just showed up work for Tyrion on day. I believe he showed up in the events leading up to the battle of black water. Tyrion rated a squire , and Pod showed up. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/33 "2014-04-21T15:06:03Z")
One of the things I like the most about this series is the badass women, particularly Daenerys and Arya and Brienne. Which is what made that scene in the Sept and the director’s explanation so weird. Littlefinger’s accent never botherd me, but he did sound strange during the last episode- almost like he was doing a Christian Bale Batman voice. That whole scene stood out for its expository villainy. Which is to say, wow, Littlefinger was monologging hardcore. > [@JSexton](#): > > I thought cersei leaned closer to “we shouldn’t be doing this” than “stop doing this”, but it was a very close thing. That’s still rape. It’s worse because of the way the scene plays out: she implores him to kill Tyrion, and he says no. She gets a little more affectionate with him after the chilly way she’s treated him since he came back to King’s Landing, and he seems to recognize that she’s being manipulative. So he says something like “You are a hateful woman. Why have the Gods made me love a hateful woman?” and drags her down to the floor. So it looked for all the world like he raped her because he was angry. If they wanted to show that she resisting him at first and then gave in or whatever at the end - which is still deeply gross - they failed. Maybe they can make it up to us next week by having Brienne beat the snot out of him for 10 or 15 minutes. Preferably using his own gold hand. > [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](#): > > Is anyone else looking forward to the inevitable spin-off series _CSI: Westeros_? I’m imagining Grand Maester Pycelle typing away at some gigantic medieval version of a keyboard while a squadron of mice drag a pointer around a two-dimensional pulley-based screen and serving girls run around in lab coats. Pycelle: “Enhance! Magnify!” _A scribe groans angrily and begins drawing a larger version of the crime scene._ ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/34 "2014-04-21T15:07:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are we to presume that Joffry’s little bro is also 100% Lannister (if you know what I mean), given the blond hair? I think we are. In season 1 it was established that all true-born Baratheons have black hair. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/35 "2014-04-21T15:20:18Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > New Daario’s David v. Goliath was a scene that didn’t work for me, or Daeny’s speech (which if I were a Mereen nobleman I’d have ordered horns blown during). Anyone else? Loved both. Dany can chew scenery all day long, and I thought it was sweet what she said to Worm and Jorah. Only one page? I mean, it was boring, but… ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/36 "2014-04-21T15:20:38Z")
Tyrion & Cersei made it explicit that Tommen & Myrcella are both Jaime’s. Tyrion said the pair had beaten the odds because they were 2/3 on non-crazy offsprings of incest. Cersei did not protest. I also recall Cersei telling… someone that Robert would only try to lay with her when he was stone drunk, at which point she’d always quickly “finish him” (presumably with a hand job ?) and he’d start snoring. I’m not even sure these two ever fucked past their honeymoon. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/37 "2014-04-21T15:24:19Z")
Isn’t the hair color the dead giveaway that Robert is not the father of Cersei’s children? I thought Ned Stark read a book in the first season saying that children of Robert’s family always have dark hair. (Never mind what the real genetics would be; this is Westeros.) ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/38 "2014-04-21T15:24:40Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > That certainly didn’t come across to me. But I’m interested in the apparent notion that so long as you can get a “yes” before your done it isn’t so rapey any more. I think there’s a legitimately interesting discussion to be had here, but one that’s very difficult to have objectively because of how touchy the subject is. Should we judge Jaime by our moral codes or the moral codes of the (fictional) world he lives in? To a certain extent, the answer can’t be anything but “both”. And what is the Westerosi moral code concerning rape, particularly concerning “she said no but she meant yes” situations, such as the one that was apparently intended to be presented here? We don’t really know, although we can make guesses based on assumptions about similarities to historical Earth cultures. In our current society there’s a hard and fast rules that “she said no but…” is NEVER a defense, and if she said no she said no. And I think that’s a great rule, I’m glad that it exists, I think it’s the right rule for various reasons. But I think Jaime’s actions in violating that rule (one which he as a character would arguably not be used to) tell us different things about his character than if a fictional character in a story set in 2014 America acted precisely the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/39 "2014-04-21T15:30:37Z")
So, what are the chances that Cersei is pregnant now? And if so, how does she try to explain it happening out of wedlock? Does she rush a wedding with Sir Loras? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/40 "2014-04-21T15:36:41Z")
Tyrion seems to understand the idea of consent perfectly well. And the problem with that scene wasn’t just the fact that Cersei said no. It’s the whole context of their conversation and the fact that Jamie seemed more angry than sad or lustful. A discussion over the meaning of “no” doesn’t make that go away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573.md?page=3)