# Game of Thrones 4.03 "Breaker of Chains" 4/20/14 \[No spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 21, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573 "2014-04-21T01:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/161 "2014-04-22T00:54:50Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Yeah. I also thought that when Arya said she knew someone in Bravos she was talking about Joquin (sp?). I figured it’s a pretty sure thing that her fencing instructor died with his wooden sword against the kingsguard off-screen. Not if he is the faceless man. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/162 "2014-04-22T00:59:56Z")
Oh. Does this mean we won’t be going to Aunt Lysa’s then? Disappointing, she was a character. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/163 "2014-04-22T01:06:34Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > Only one page? I mean, it was boring, but… Four pages in 24 hours seems respectable by GoT thread standards. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/164 "2014-04-22T01:10:16Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Oh. Does this mean we won’t be going to Aunt Lysa’s then? Disappointing, she was a character. I think we will, but it won’t turn out the way the Hound expects. The Arya/Clegane buddy show will continue for a while, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/165 "2014-04-22T01:11:34Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > My guess is, she never saw that first child as “hers”. It was Robert’s. She never wanted to marry Robert and she never wanted to bear his children. I’m surprised she even gave birth to it in the first place. Though mayber she wasn’t sure if it was Robert’s or Jaime’s. Then when she saw the dark hair, she knew it was Robert’s. Didn’t she say that she had a crush on Robert, just like other girls of the time. It was only after they were married and she realized that he would never lover her because he still carried a torch for Ned’s sister that Cersei grew to despise him. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/166 "2014-04-22T01:14:26Z")
Another thing: I for one am hoping we don’t see a lot more of that tribe of cannibals, led by the guy with the lacerated face. They seem to have wandered in from a much-worse fantasy show than this one, or maybe from the wrong Mel Gibson movie (Mad Max, not Braveheart). Yes I know the wildlings need allies, but who is going to join up with that bunch, who’d as soon eat you as fight alongside you? (Um forgive me but I sort of forget what the goal of the whole wall-scaling Mance Rayder crew is in the first place.) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/167 "2014-04-22T01:23:04Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Another thing: I for one am hoping we don’t see a lot more of that tribe of cannibals, led by the guy with the lacerated face. They seem to have wandered in from a much-worse fantasy show than this one, or maybe from the wrong Mel Gibson movie (Mad Max, not Braveheart). > > Yes I know the wildlings need allies, but who is going to join up with that bunch, who’d as soon eat you as fight alongside you? (Um forgive me but I sort of forget what the goal of the whole wall-scaling Mance Rayder crew is in the first place.) They’re running from the White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/168 "2014-04-22T01:27:09Z")
Their goal is to take over castle black and open the gates for Mances gigantic army. And they are all wildlings, just different kinds. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/169 "2014-04-22T01:28:14Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Jeez, I sure do miss those innocent times when GoT threads were derailed by discussions of what “Part Dragon” means, instead of being derailed by **rape-shaming**. “Rape-shaming”? What’s that? > [@Vashbul](#): > > Another thing: I for one am hoping we don’t see a lot more of that tribe of cannibals, led by the guy with the lacerated face. They seem to have wandered in from a much-worse fantasy show than this one, or maybe from the wrong Mel Gibson movie (Mad Max, not Braveheart). > Yes I know the wildlings need allies, **but who is going to join up with that bunch, who’d as soon eat you as fight alongside you?** I agree; this development seems to be more about sensationalism than about logic. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/170 "2014-04-22T01:45:52Z")
It’s so weird watching the episode and seeing such a strong reaction about a scene I had already forgotten about. I think, technically what happened was what a 20th century person in our world would call rape. Not so sure about Westeros. There were obviously strong conflicting emotions on both sides, it may be that Jamie and Cersei had developed a “language” for their obviously raunchy love-making and he knew her “no” wasn’t a real “no”. OR maybe he raped her. I’m not sure what the big deal is. Lots of people in the show have been raped, including men. Stranger still is this whole “I used to like Jaime but now that he’s a rapist, I hate him!” reaction to this. The guy is a murderer. He tried to kill a little boy at least once, but oh noes he kind of raped his lover, the bastard! The fuck? “Has the show finally gone too far?!” Shut the f up people, get over yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/171 "2014-04-22T01:47:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > “Rape-shaming”? What’s that?. Pretty much this: > [@Sherrerd](#): > > Not to get into a, er, beef here, but: > > You really seem to be saying here that if a man is emotionally wounded, it’s pretty much okay for him to force himself on a woman. > > I mean, how are you NOT saying that? > > Also, the rationale (mentioned in the fifth paragraph, above) that the woman was “ambiguous” and “conflicted,” and that this (whether true or only perceived as true by the male character) makes it okay to rape: is that really a good philosophy? In the scene as filmed, the female character said “no” many times. > > Are we really going for acceptance of the old “no means yes” justification, here? ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/172 "2014-04-22T01:58:22Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Their goal is to take over castle black and open the gates for Mances gigantic army. And they are all wildlings, just different kinds. And eat all their food, and eat each other and then what? Also, I don’t think they like it when you call them “wildlings” to their face. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/173 "2014-04-22T02:11:54Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > And eat all their food, and eat each other and then what? And play the game of thrones of course. They want to rule the comfy lands down south instead of having to live in caves on the outskirts, freezing to death and dealing with undead frozen zombies constantly. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/174 "2014-04-22T02:27:34Z")
Mostly they want to get to the good side of the wall without actually taking the wall down, since they know exactly whats coming after them. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/175 "2014-04-22T04:53:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not if he is the faceless man. There’s no reason to believe he was. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/176 "2014-04-22T05:12:46Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > They also mentioned that Cersei and Robert’s first son was a black haired boy who died in infancy, implying that he was Robert’s. > [@Acsenray](#): > > And also heavily implied that Cersei killed him. > [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > My guess is, she never saw that first child as “hers”. It was Robert’s. She never wanted to marry Robert and she never wanted to bear his children. I’m surprised she even gave birth to it in the first place. Though mayber she wasn’t sure if it was Robert’s or Jaime’s. Then when she saw the dark hair, she knew it was Robert’s. I have no problem believing that Cersei killed her first child, the child of the man she didn’t care about, but I also believe that Cersei’s only redeeming quality is her love of her children. I think we can probably assume that they made a point of telling us the story of her first child dying for a reason, though - to indicate that she killed him herself. Regarding the rape of Cersei by Jaime, I was thinking at first that rape isn’t a big deal in Westeros; any woman can sort of expect it at any time, whenever a man with a sword comes along. On the other hand, though, Cersei is the Queen/Queen Regent, and if any woman is too powerful to not be raped with the seeming impunity of their society, it would be her. It will be very interesting to see what the fallout from this will be. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/177 "2014-04-22T05:18:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Oh, that’s silly. I appreciate you wanted more dragon action, but her selling herself to the slaves (get it?lol) before attacking isn’t a ridiculous plot point. It’s not like the masters in the new town were telling all their slaves that a savior was coming to town. I know it’s silly. My point though is this is like the third city now where she has shown up to free the slaves and frankly, it’s getting dull. But you know what’s not dull? Dragons! Dragons make everything better, yes, I really like dragons. But if this is all Dany is going to be doing this season then maybe they don’t have to bother showing every single city she visits. > [@Morbo](#): > > Jeez, I sure do miss those innocent times when GoT threads were derailed by discussions of what “Part Dragon” means, instead of being derailed by rape-shaming. I was thinking the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/178 "2014-04-22T05:27:38Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I know it’s silly. My point though is this is like the third city now where she has shown up to free the slaves and frankly, it’s getting dull. But you know what’s not dull? Dragons! Dragons make everything better, yes, I really like dragons. But if this is all Dany is going to be doing this season then maybe they don’t have to bother showing every single city she visits.\ Dany riding dragons would also be exciting. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/179 "2014-04-22T06:12:11Z")
Just remembered this. A farmer tells his son, “nobody can boil a potato like your mum”. He is immediately killed. This happened because there were no potatoes in Europe, or anywhere outside of the Andes, until the Spanish brought them over in the latter part of the fifteenth century. So he absolutely deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573/180 "2014-04-22T06:12:53Z")
I’m having trouble with definitions, here. What is Cercei changes her mind 5 minutes later and decides she wants to have more sex with Jaime Lannister? Is the following sex still rape? There’s a huge thread on other websites where posters say this is impossible, once a magic threshold has been reached it’s all rape after that. Watching the scene again, it is actually somewhat unclear. I mean, she’s saying “it’s not right” but does that mean “we’re being bad but don’t stop” or “stop you’re raping me”. Furthermore, some of her arm motions appear to be pulling him closer and some are pushing him away. The very last shot shows her hand tightening on a piece of cloth attached to her son’s body. Is this pain? Pleasure? Fear? When Jaime says “I don’t care”, does this mean “I don’t care that you are telling me to stop” or “I don’t care how fucked up this place is to have sex in” I mean, don’t different couples have different messages they give each other through body language and words? How do we know this isn’t “normal” for their fucked up relationship? People who do BDSM explicitly define no differently, and there’s a safe word instead. Now, sure, in real life a total stranger who pulls a woman in a dark alley at knifepoint can’t really claim “mixed signals” and she was ‘asking for it’. But, hypothetically, what if in past situations Cercei had said to Jaime “it really turns me on when we have rough sex in risky places”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-03-breaker-of-chains-4-20-14-no-spoilers/686573.md?page=10)