# Game of Thrones 4.04 "Oathkeeper" 4/27/14 \[No Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153 "2014-04-28T02:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/61 "2014-04-28T17:18:04Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I thought it was telling that they had the guy who served under the Mad King try to talk her out of it. I think Belamy was giving it a meek effort, being more used to civilized warfare up North. If he was really upset about it, he could simply have resigned. Dany is more focused on who her enemies are, I can imagine that the average slave, up to that point was thinking she is just another in a long line of masters. Now she owns them, heart and mind. So westeros is looking at a horde of zombies and a tsunami of humanity coming down from the north, and a million screaming fanatics, with dragon support coming up from the south. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/62 "2014-04-28T17:28:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Historically, most of the prolific conquerers were quite brutal to populations that resisted them. The idea was - you can surrender to us now, and we’ll let you live - but if we shed one drop of blood taking your city, we’re going to brutally murder you all. So they did wish to encourage surrender, but they thought that the way to do it was to follow through with brutality towards those who didn’t. In this case, did she even offer them the option of surrender? She definitely did to Yunkai. It’s not clear to me that the slave owners were either offered or had accepted surrender. Perhaps the slaves overpowered them. And if the number of slave holders crucified were equal to the number along the road then that might be considered just. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/63 "2014-04-28T17:35:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s not clear to me that the slave owners were either offered or had accepted surrender. Perhaps the slaves overpowered them. And if the number of slave holders crucified were equal to the number along the road then that might be considered just. They crucified 163 people, which was equal to the number of corpses they found on the way to the city. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/64 "2014-04-28T17:37:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > You’ve pointed this out in both threads but you’re wrong. [See here](http://s23.postimg.org/68s04vp3f/Jaime.png). He has a dagger on his left hip, his sword is on his right. OK, I’ll admit error. What happened to the sword that was given to Joffrey? Surely they won’t bury it with him? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/65 "2014-04-28T17:38:31Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Don’t know if you remember, but he was one of the psychos locked in the cage with Jaqen H’ghar (Arya’s assassin buddy) back in Season One. There’s a reason he was caged and not walking free. You sure about that? Yoren and co never made it to the wall before getting waylaid by Polliver, et al near Harrenhall. Arya let Jaqen and the others out of their cage to save them from the fire. There would be no reason for any of them to continue on to the wall… ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/66 "2014-04-28T17:53:08Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > One thing that no one seems to have mentioned yet, the White Walker that turned the baby (and it looked to be a group of them) was decidedly different from the White Walkers we’ve seen before. It had weird horn like things and was less corpsified. I’m assuming those are the leaders. The corpsified things are previously dead humans - reanimated by the white walkers. The thing that turned the baby is a white walker. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/67 "2014-04-28T17:58:50Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > OK, I’ll admit error. > > What happened to the sword that was given to Joffrey? Surely they won’t bury it with him? Presumably it will stay with the Lannisters and be given to Tommen, the same way it was given to Joffrey. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/68 "2014-04-28T18:09:31Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > You sure about that? Yoren and co never made it to the wall before getting waylaid by Polliver, et al near Harrenhall. Arya let Jaqen and the others out of their cage to save them from the fire. There would be no reason for any of them to continue on to the wall… Yeah, that’s wrong. The two other guys with Jaquen were fat, one was bald with filed teeth. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/69 "2014-04-28T18:19:11Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > The corpsified things are previously dead humans - reanimated by the white walkers. The thing that turned the baby is a white walker. I know that. I’m talking about the difference between the White Walker guy who turned the baby and the regular White Walkers that we’ve seen before. The ones who ride horse and have ice spears. Maybe “corpsified” isn’t the right word, but the current White Walkers have and older, undeadish look compared to these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/70 "2014-04-28T18:31:40Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The only thing I ever remember seeing Dance in was Eddie Murphy’s _ **The Golden Child,** _ in which he played the Devil. What else has he done that Americans would know about? Showtime has a shoot’em up, nakid bum sex, black ops televsion series called, um, errrr. Damn it! My husband loves this show. It has an Austrailian playing an Englishman and an Englisman playing an American. They work out of England. Anyway, last season Dance was the Big Bad. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/71 "2014-04-28T18:33:12Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I know that. I’m talking about the difference between the White Walker guy who turned the baby and the regular White Walkers that we’ve seen before. The ones who ride horse and have ice spears. Maybe “corpsified” isn’t the right word, but the current White Walkers have and older, undeadish look compared to these guys. [This is an image of a white walker we saw earlier in the show.](http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/whitewalker.jpg) [Here’s the walker we saw in Oathkeeper, from the POV of the baby.](http://s28.postimg.org/q3iq3mk8t/Walker_Baby.png) They’re clearly the same type of creature, with only as much variance as you’d expect between two different individuals (if there’s any difference at all). > [@Oakminster](#): > > What happened to the sword that was given to Joffrey? Surely they won’t bury it with him? No idea. They’d definitely not bury it with him. It’s likely Tommen’s now. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/72 "2014-04-28T18:40:08Z")
OK, I was a little bit wrong. It’s Cinemax and the show is called Strike Back. And the nationalities of the two leads is mixed up too. And it was the third season where Charles Dance was the big bad. Research first, post second. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/73 "2014-04-28T18:41:50Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The only thing I ever remember seeing Dance in was Eddie Murphy’s _ **The Golden Child,** _ in which he played the Devil. What else has he done that Americans would know about? He was Sgt. Guy Perron in “The Jewel in the Crown,” one of the most popular British series ever shown on PBS’s Masterpiece Theatre. [![](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4beNJYKkQs0/TrlWMhMSWOI/AAAAAAAAAWs/aiw77vhi-Vk/s1600/jewel6.jpg) ](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4beNJYKkQs0/TrlWMhMSWOI/AAAAAAAAAWs/aiw77vhi-Vk/s1600/jewel6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/74 "2014-04-28T18:42:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > With all that Grey Worm and the slaves in Meereen speak in Valurian with English subtitles, but wrote KILL THE MASTERS in English. Has this been addressed? Why did they write KILL THE MASTERS in English? Couldn’t they have written it in Valurian and then subtitled it below? And before that one master got his in the alleyway he looked up at the winged statue above the city and it looked different. I froze the frame but still couldn’t see what they had done to it. Did it have a shroud with Calisi’s symbol on it or something? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/75 "2014-04-28T18:50:39Z")
There is no “English” as such. We don’t know what language the graffiti was written in, just that it was shown in English for our benefit. Performed works aren’t trying to literally depict another world as it would actually be had it been real. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/76 "2014-04-28T18:55:20Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > [This is an image of a white walker we saw earlier in the show.](http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/whitewalker.jpg) > > [Here’s the walker we saw in Oathkeeper, from the POV of the baby.](http://s28.postimg.org/q3iq3mk8t/Walker_Baby.png) > > They’re clearly the same type of creature, with only as much variance as you’d expect between two different individuals (if there’s any difference at all). Not the one that took the baby. The one who changed it. [This guy](http://d1mxyp5ceukbya.cloudfront.net/images/game-of-thrones-nights-king.jpg) Clearly a different type of white walker. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/77 "2014-04-28T18:56:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > There is no “English” as such. We don’t know what language the graffiti was written in, just that it was shown in English for our benefit. Performed works aren’t trying to literally depict another world as it would actually be had it been real. It’s just a coincidence that the English translation of Bear and the Maiden Fair rhymes. 😉 > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Not the one that took the baby. The one who changed it. > > [This guy](http://d1mxyp5ceukbya.cloudfront.net/images/game-of-thrones-nights-king.jpg) > > Clearly a different type of white walker. Oh yeah, my bad. Forgot about him. I’d guess he just looks different because he’s the leader or something. Maybe he was the first White Walker? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/78 "2014-04-28T19:00:16Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > And before that one master got his in the alleyway he looked up at the winged statue above the city and it looked different. I froze the frame but still couldn’t see what they had done to it. Did it have a shroud with Calisi’s symbol on it or something? I rewound it, freeze-framed it, and then stepped forward, and couldn’t for the life of me figure out what caught his attention. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/79 "2014-04-28T19:01:11Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Not the one that took the baby. The one who changed it. > > [This guy](http://d1mxyp5ceukbya.cloudfront.net/images/game-of-thrones-nights-king.jpg) > > Clearly a different type of white walker. My guess; that’s a mommy White Walker, and she’s “birthing” a new baby White Walker. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/80 "2014-04-28T19:04:55Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I rewound it, freeze-framed it, and then stepped forward, and couldn’t for the life of me figure out what caught his attention. There was a black banner hung on the status that wasn’t normally there. Later, we get a better look at it when Danerys is standing on the parapet. It’s a black banner with a dragon on it, presumably Danerys’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153.md?page=5)