# Game of Thrones 4.04 "Oathkeeper" 4/27/14 \[No Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153 "2014-04-28T02:38:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/121 "2014-04-29T02:10:57Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Sir Loras was the guard on duty, Cersei made a point that she wanted at least four guards at all times, when talking with Jaime. > > He is Margeries brother, so that’s not hard to figure out what happened. > > Declan Ah, I remember Jaime discussing the guards but I missed him mentioning Loras. Isn’t it against the rules for a member of the King’s guard to be engaged? I thought they all had to pledge chastity. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/122 "2014-04-29T02:18:38Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > What made me think that originally was that if he wanted Jon Snow to get himself killed in his foray beyond the wall and wanted as few Crows as possible to help him on his quest, he could have easily decided \*against \*allowing Bolton’s inside-man (which he had seen was a quite capable fighter) to go based on the fact that he was just a new recruit that hadn’t taken his vows and was forbidden from going past the wall. But instead, quite uncharacteristically, he quickly and graciously gave him the nod, and right after it seemed that the director was subtly implying that they were exchanging a knowing glance. The only reason it would make sense to let him go is if he knew he was going to try to make sure Jon _didn’t_ come back alive. Maybe he just wanted to put anyone showing friendship or loyalty to Snow in harms way. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/123 "2014-04-29T02:22:18Z")
[Image from Mhysa.](http://static.naukas.com/media/2014/04/Daenerys-Yunkai-madre-de-dragones-Mhysa-Juego-de-Tronos-Game-of-Thrones-season-finale-frikarte.png) [And another.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GOT_Mhysa.png) In fact if you read the Wikipedia entry you’ll see other people talked about this. I don’t think anyone was being prejudiced, but it was really hard to overlook. > [@Premislaus](#): > > They didn’t shoot season 4 Dany arc in North Africa. They shoot it in Croatia, with Croatian extras, and I don’t think Croatians are considered to be “dark-skinned”. I was talking about the finale from last season, but I did notice that the Meereen slaves had lighter complexions. Ultimately they’re just filming wherever they need to and hiring extras from there, but as we saw last week, sometimes TV shows end up giving impressions that weren’t intended. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/124 "2014-04-29T02:23:21Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Sir Loras was the guard on duty, Cersei made a point that she wanted at least four guards at all times, when talking with Jaime. > > He is Margeries brother, so that’s not hard to figure out what happened. > > Declan Loras isn’t in the Kingsguard. Boros Blount was guarding the door. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/125 "2014-04-29T02:35:29Z")
> [@Premislaus](#): > > They didn’t shoot season 4 Dany arc in North Africa. They shoot it in Croatia, with Croatian extras, and I don’t think Croatians are considered to be “dark-skinned”. It’s funny how people see what they want to see. I felt the same as **Marley23** about the end of Mhysa. [Rewatch the scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOEKjx4cbw) (relevant bit starts at 3:25) and judge for yourself. It’s the whitest girl in the world being worshipped by a sea of brown. Which is maybe no big deal in Essos, but as a viewer in the real world it felt uncomfortable to me. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/126 "2014-04-29T02:43:24Z")
I don’t get it. Why would that make someone uncomfortable? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/127 "2014-04-29T02:53:56Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I don’t get it. Why would that make someone uncomfortable? I thought we already went into that. The word Wikipedia used is colonialist, and if you had to describe it in one word, that would probably do the job. The problem is the image of this mass of dark-skinned people worshipping a white person and exalting her like a god. Now, what could they have done about it? It’s tough. Emilia Clarke is awesome and George R.R. Martin is the one who decided the character looks that way. And they did put some money into the local economy; bringing in craploads of extras to Morocco wouldn’t have done that and would have been impractical. The moment is pretty powerful, too. But they probably could have toned down the worship aspect some. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/128 "2014-04-29T03:25:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I thought we already went into that. The word Wikipedia used is colonialist, and if you had to describe it in one word, that would probably do the job. The problem is the image of this mass of dark-skinned people worshipping a white person and exalting her like a god. Now, what could they have done about it? It’s tough. Emilia Clarke is awesome and George R.R. Martin is the one who decided the character looks that way. And they did put some money into the local economy; bringing in craploads of extras to Morocco wouldn’t have done that and would have been impractical. The moment is pretty powerful, too. But they probably could have toned down the worship aspect some. It was completely realistic to me. She’s not \*from \*there. It’s a different continent with a hot desert climate, so of course the people would be swarthier. And wouldn’t any one of us worship the person who freed us from slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/129 "2014-04-29T03:27:13Z")
That’s not the point. Depicting dark-skinned people worshipping a light-skinned person as their savior is problematic for _us_ in the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/130 "2014-04-29T03:34:57Z")
Right. I’m talking about the implied racial politics, which is why I didn’t say anything about realism. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/131 "2014-04-29T03:52:44Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Maybe he just wanted to put anyone showing friendship or loyalty to Snow in harms way. I guess that’s a possibility, but I’m still pretty convinced my suspicions are correct. It all fits, anyway. And I know it’s not conclusive, but the subtle “glance” was what really convinced me. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/132 "2014-04-29T03:56:59Z")
> [@MeanJoe](#): > > …The actress who plays Maergery… unbelievably hot. Yes, I noticed this before this episode but that scene with Tommen really drove it home. Maergery played that perfectly, just completely wrapped Tommen around her finger there. If I was a 14-year old boy you betcha I’d keep her visits a secret from mommy… I’m guessing Maergery will very slowly work her visits up to anything else. I’m not sure exactly how hold Tommen is supposed to, but judging by his reactions just talking to Maergery seems like’s it’s enough for him to have to change nightgowns. > [@Oakminster](#): > > OK, I’ll admit error. > > What happened to the sword that was given to Joffrey? Surely they won’t bury it with him? No, it was just displayed with his corpse for aesthetic effect during the funeral. It’s Tommen’s now; just like everything else of Joffrey’s now. > [@Acsenray](#): > > There is no “English” as such. We don’t know what language the graffiti was written in, just that it was shown in English for our benefit. Performed works aren’t trying to literally depict another world as it would actually be had it been real. Except it’s been firmly established that English is a stand-in for Andalish (aka the Common Tongue of Westeros); everything thing is conlang created just for the show. > [@Kobal2](#): > > …- So the Walkers really have been taking Craster’s babies, and turning them into more Walkers apparently. Which means he might have been \*the \*one and only reason they’re back in force, scaring the Wildlings into banding up to blow this frozen popsicle stand… I’m going to assume that “White Walker babies” can still grow up into adult White Walkers, otherwise it’s hard to see the point of them. > [@LawMonkey](#): > > I get the feeling they’re a bit more comfortable with open sexuality in Westeros than we are here on earth. After all, this a society in which you are expected to _ahem_ perform in front of your guests on your wedding night… I don’t think the bride & groom actually consummate the marriage in front of witnesses; they just get delivered naked into the marital bed by them. And it’s an optional part of the wedding. During the Middle Ages on Earth is wasn’t unheard of for royal couples to consummate the marriage with courtiers just outside the door or behind a curtain; this the sheets being publically displayed the following morning (as proof of both consummation and the bride’s virginity). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/133 "2014-04-29T07:09:56Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I guess there’s an exception to every rule - not _everyone_ who names their sword is a cunt. I’m confident that the Hound would consider Brienne a cunt, not related to her gender. Even moreso because she named her sword. To go super-nerdy, she’s Lawful Good. I’m sure the Hound considers everyone Lawful Good to be cunts. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/134 "2014-04-29T07:28:06Z")
In an utterly irrelevant data point likely of interest only to me, the Hound reminds me of Bruiser Brody more than a little. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/135 "2014-04-29T07:38:20Z")
Nice to see Hodor artistically stretched. Oathkeeper? _Oathkeeper_? bit of a cringe. Wot, no brothel lineup? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/136 "2014-04-29T11:17:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Except it’s been firmly established that English is a stand-in for Andalish (aka the Common Tongue of Westeros); everything thing is conlang created just for the show. It’s not a documentary of a fictional world. It’s a story. Unless someone makes a point of saying that the graffiti was in Westerosi, then all we know is that we’re meant to understand what it says. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/137 "2014-04-29T11:56:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s not the point. Depicting dark-skinned people worshipping a light-skinned person as their savior is problematic for _us_ in the real world. Hang on, a white woman is releasing “dark-skinned” people from their slavery to other white people. I haven’t seen in GoT a depiction of that resulting in “worshipping”, blondie keeps talking about “freedom” though, with the implication of choice. Unless you mean ‘worshipping’ in a Napoleonic sense, or something … Maybe you meant another word. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/138 "2014-04-29T13:21:12Z")
Continuity problem… the slave freeing scene, they speak Valarean but the word “Kill the Masters” is in English :smack: While I understand that the message needed to be conveyed to the audience, how about subtitles or having some visual effect of the words changing for our benefit on screen. Also, Littlefinger just needed to twirl his mustache to be even more cliche in his “evil plans”. That all being said, loved the show 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/139 "2014-04-29T13:30:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > The only thing I ever remember seeing Dance in was Eddie Murphy’s _ **The Golden Child,** _ in which he played the Devil. What else has he done that Americans would know about? Arnold’s main nemesis in the Last Action Hero. Hated by critics but I did not think it was THAT bad (although that kid actor sucked big time). ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153/140 "2014-04-29T13:38:02Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I felt the same as **Marley23** about the end of Mhysa. [Rewatch the scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJOEKjx4cbw) (relevant bit starts at 3:25) and judge for yourself. It’s the whitest girl in the world being worshipped by a sea of brown. Which is maybe no big deal in Essos, but as a viewer in the real world it felt uncomfortable to me. This is series set in a universe that has ZERO ties to our own. The connection and subsequent burden is your own drawn from your own personal feelings. And while it is certainly your choice to add that bewildering context to a fantasy show, it is not the creators or producers job to give it even a second of thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-04-oathkeeper-4-27-14-no-spoilers/687153.md?page=8)