# Game of Thrones 4.05 "The First Of His Name" 5/4/14 NO SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679 "2014-05-05T00:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/201 "2014-05-06T18:19:51Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Syrio died “off screen.” Do we know if he is really dead? I remember thinking at the time he might turn up again. > > Speaking of lists. How many of the Dire Wolves are left? Just Ghost, Summer (Bran’s) and Arya’s (who is MIA)? I’m pretty sure Rickon still has his too. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/202 "2014-05-06T18:22:33Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Where is all this information about the kingdoms coming from? I don’t believe the show has ever said what the 7 kingdoms are. It has been offered in drips and drabs throughout the series and is in HBO’s viewer’s guide, which is updated as each new episode is released. There is an interactive map that gives geographical info, information about each noble house and it’s history as it has been revealed thus far and so on. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/203 "2014-05-06T18:22:42Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > The mountain and his men were the ones that captured her and Gendry and hotpie and killed Lommy and took them to harrenhal. Arya and Gendry are just friends who met while Yoren was taking them to the wall. I recall Arya being pissed at the Mountain for killing the butcher’s boy after the dustup between Arya, the butcher’s boy, Joffrey, and Arya’s dog. This led to Arya driving her dog away so it couldn’t be killed, and so Sansa’s dog was killed instead. Then the mountain hunted down and killed the boy. Was that Lommy, and was he the butcher’s boy? Was there a butcher’s boy at all, or am I misremembering? > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > [Season 2 Episode 6.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9jac7Qg9w4) This seems pretty clear to me that he did indeed recognize her. He first notices her at 4:08 in the video. The way he follows her with his eyes (4:27 - 4:30) positively screams “I know her.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/204 "2014-05-06T18:27:50Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I recall Arya being pissed at the Mountain for killing the butcher’s boy after the dustup between Arya, the butcher’s boy, Joffrey, and Arya’s dog. This led to Arya driving her dog away so it couldn’t be killed, and so Sansa’s dog was killed instead. Then the mountain hunted down and killed the boy. > > Was that Lommy, and was he the butcher’s boy? Was there a butcher’s boy at all, or am I misremembering? I can’t believe that I dare to correct someone’s memory, but yes: you’re misremembering. It was The Hound that killed the butcher’s boy, not The Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/205 "2014-05-06T18:33:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I recall Arya being pissed at the Mountain for killing the butcher’s boy after the dustup between Arya, the butcher’s boy, Joffrey, and Arya’s dog. This led to Arya driving her dog away so it couldn’t be killed, and so Sansa’s dog was killed instead. Then the mountain hunted down and killed the boy. Replace “The Mountain” with “The Hound”, and that’s approximately right. (And please, they are direwolves, not dogs.) > [@](#): > > Was that Lommy, and was he the butcher’s boy? Was there a butcher’s boy at all, or am I misremembering? Lommy was a friend of Arya, Gendry and Hot Pie when they were all going north with the Night’s Watch, before getting capture and taken to Harrenhall. Lommy’s leg got injured, and he said “you’ll have to carry me”, and then a baddie named Polliver stabbed him in the throat. For which Arya somewhat recently extracted revenge, with the Hound’s help. (“What the fuck is a Lommy?”) > [@](#): > > This seems pretty clear to me that he did indeed recognize her. He first notices her at 4:08 in the video. The way he follows her with his eyes (4:27 - 4:30) positively screams “I know her.” I think it’s deliberately ambiguous in the moment, but I think there’s pretty strong evidence going forward that Littlefinger did not, in fact, recognize her. Namely, if he DID recognize her, what did he do with that information? As far as we know, nothing. And Littlefinger does not let valuable information go to waste. (It’s possible that he attempted off-screen to put some scheme into motion that was screwed up by her escape from the castle, but I think that violates Occam’s razor.) ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/206 "2014-05-06T18:35:52Z")
The butcher’s boy was called Micah, and he was killed by the Hound in S1E2. Lommy was one of the Night’s Watch recruits travelling north in the same party as Arya and Gendry. When they were attacked by the Lannister soldiers in S2E3 he was injured in the leg, and then killed by Polliver. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/207 "2014-05-06T18:37:23Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > “You would be my lady.” - Season 3 epi 5. There was an element of potential romance in there, I think, but what he was actually saying is that you would no longer be my equal or my lover - you’d be My Lady, a noble woman who I would serve under. Hence the appeal for him of being amongst equals. > [@DigitalC](#): > > The riverlands are a kingdom, the iron islands and the crownlads aren’t. When Robert was talking to his brother and Selmy about “making the eight”, he said you had to fuck a girl from the seven kingdoms and the riverlands. So the Riverlands has always been separate from “the seven kingdoms” in that term, even if they’re in the same tier of importance as the other seven kingdoms. > [@EllisDee](#): > > Was that Lommy, and was he the butcher’s boy? Was there a butcher’s boy at all, or am I misremembering? Lommy was the kid that Polliver killed after he stole Arya’s sword, when Loach’s men caught up to Yoren. It was his last words that she repeated to Polliver when she killed him ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/208 "2014-05-06T18:39:41Z")
The butcher’s boy incident took place when Ned and the girls went south with King Robert and his family. Joffrey was showing off for Sansa and guzzling booze and came across Arya and Mycah sparring. Joffrey took offense and threatened Mycah so Arya kicked his ass. Joffrey said that Mycah attacked him, so the Hound tracked the kid down and brought back his body like a deer’s carcass slung over the back of his horse. Lommy was one of the people in Arya’s group who were being sent north to the Night’s Watch after Ned was beheaded. They were captured by men working for the Mountain and taken to Harrenhall. Lommy was injured and couldn’t walk, so the Mountain’s men killed him. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/209 "2014-05-06T19:14:38Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m pretty sure Rickon still has his too. \What the fuck is a Rickon?\ Seriously, where IS Rickon these days? When’s the last time we saw him? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/210 "2014-05-06T19:18:33Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > \What the fuck is a Rickon?\ > > Seriously, where IS Rickon these days? When’s the last time we saw him? At the end of last season. He and Osha are going towards some House that still has allegiance to the Starks. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/211 "2014-05-06T19:23:15Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > At the end of last season. He and Osha are going towards some House that still has allegiance to the Starks. I believe that would be the Umbers. GreatJon Umber was one of Robb Stark’s trusted advisers, one of the first and loudest to proclaim him King in the North. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/212 "2014-05-06T20:44:31Z")
If Littlefinger knew that Arya was the cupbearer, I don’t think he would have implemented his assassination of Joffrey. If he knew that it was Arya it meant that she was with Tyrion. If she’s with Tyrion, that means she’s somewhere in King’s Landing. If she’s in King’s Landing, why just rescue Sansa when you can rescue both Stark girls? If Arya wasn’t with Tyrion, then it would have meant that Arya was found out, and there is no news of that either. But then again, I didn’t think Olenna was in on the assassination event either so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/213 "2014-05-06T21:07:14Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > If Littlefinger knew that Arya was the cupbearer, I don’t think he would have implemented his assassination of Joffrey. If he knew that it was Arya it meant that she was with Tyrion. If she’s with Tyrion, that means she’s somewhere in King’s Landing. If she’s in King’s Landing, why just rescue Sansa when you can rescue both Stark girls? If Arya wasn’t with Tyrion, then it would have meant that Arya was found out, and there is no news of that either. > > But then again, I didn’t think Olenna was in on the assassination event either so what do I know? Do you mean Tywin? Why would Arya be with Tyrion? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/214 "2014-05-06T21:17:08Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > For the record: Caitlyn Stark has done more damage and caused more chaos than Tywinn or the whole Lannister clan ever could. > > 1. She started Ned down the “Lannisters killed Arryn” road with no due diligence/fact checking. > > 2. She released Jamie as “trade bait” with zero understanding or even rationale on the situation. > > 3. She arrested Tyrion emotionally and without much proof > > 4. Little finger who is the source of all evil, would be dead if Caitlyn did not beg for his life to be spared. > > I will admit the show would be 50% more boring without all the chaos and %^&ups she caused, but damn that woman was a black plague on the Stark house fortunes. And Lysa has it in for Sansa because of her mother, Catelyn, from what is apparently a simmering resentment that started when they were young sisters (Lysa and Catelyn, that is). Although I don’t know how much of that is anything Catelyn did, or Lysa just being a total loon. I think you could also argue that Littlefinger wants Sansa\* (possibly because she’s Catelyn’s daughter), so that’s one more bit of trouble that Catelyn is still causing. \*And I think he does. His end game is to sit on the Iron Throne with Sansa as his queen, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/215 "2014-05-06T21:22:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Do you mean Tywin? Why would Arya be with Tyrion? Yeah, Tywin. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/216 "2014-05-06T22:49:56Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Sunuva– > > Arya says that they would “be family” and he rebukes her with “We wouldn’t be family. You would be my lady.” meaning he’d always be below her. > But Gendry always read as a little sad in that scene and I always took it as not a brush off of her, but showing how practical he is. It wouldn’t work between them because of status–not because he wasn’t interested. I’d like to think he wasn’t interested because she was about 13 years old and really still looks like a child. I know the morals are a little different in oldy times, but Tyrion feels bad about marrying Sansa. I would like to think Gendry is at least as noble as him. I have to stick with “little sister” feelings to describe his attachment to her. (until inevitably proven wrong. lol) ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/217 "2014-05-06T23:33:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’d like to think he wasn’t interested because she was about 13 years old and really still looks like a child. I know the morals are a little different in oldy times, but Tyrion feels bad about marrying Sansa. I would like to think Gendry is at least as noble as him. I have to stick with “little sister” feelings to describe his attachment to her. (until inevitably proven wrong. lol) I get that. Part of the squicky-ness of it is that Gendry looks like a MAN and Arya looks like a young girl (although it’s getting harder to see that as the show goes on–same with Sansa since both actresses have grown A LOT). But in story Gendry is probably not more than 3 or so years older than Arya. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/218 "2014-05-06T23:57:54Z")
Yes, in real life he is 27 and the actress who plays Arya is 17 and it totally shows that they are 10 years apart, imho. Maybe it’s my own modern bias but I just didn’t get a romantic feeling from his side. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/219 "2014-05-07T07:00:33Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I’m pretty sure Rickon still has his too. **Shaggydog** is what Rickon named his direwolf. ETA: Shaggydog is still, so far as is known, alive and well and with Rickon. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2014, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/220 "2014-05-07T07:41:50Z")
When do we get a new tv trope called the GoT :when a marriage is annulled due to never having been consummated, repeatedly, in the same series/episode multiple times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=12)