# Game of Thrones 4.05 "The First Of His Name" 5/4/14 NO SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679 "2014-05-05T00:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/281 "2014-05-08T20:24:57Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > They **think** Castle Black has 1000 men. Apologies, curses for browsing on my iPhone and missing that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/282 "2014-05-08T20:25:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maybe I missed something but the way Tywin was talking it sounded like he was the Iron Bank and was getting the Tyrells to pay back the Bank/Lannisters. No. The Iron Bank is based in Braavos, on Essos (the continent across the sea from Westeros). The crown is now heavily in debt to that bank. Since the Lannister gold mines are empty, it’s going to be harder for them to come up with the money they owe- and it probably doesn’t help that the Lannisters were also lending money to the crown. If the ruling family can’t pay its debts, the bank will make a deal with an enemy who has more money and put them in position to take the throne. That’s why the alliance with the Tyrells is so important: the Tyrells still have a steady source of income, and the Lannisters want access to that money. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/283 "2014-05-08T20:26:59Z")
Remind me where the Tyrells get their moola? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/284 "2014-05-08T20:28:24Z")
Fertile lands. They have actual, productive wealth - not just mining shiny stuff. Maybe there’s other stuff like valuable trade cities and harbors, but it’s made clear that the reach is rich in productive soil and manpower. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/285 "2014-05-08T20:35:22Z")
Specifically,the Reach feeds the most of the southern kingdoms and King’s Landing. The are kind of the midwest USA/southern Canada breadbasket area of Westeros ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/286 "2014-05-08T20:53:46Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > [Jessica Fletcher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Fletcher), you mean. > > She’d be handy to Tyrion, but most of the murders in the GoT world are not at all mysterious. You don’t know… it could’ve been young Angela Lansbury, who has developed Ser Candidate of Manchurios to take Tomnen out at the key moment… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/287 "2014-05-08T22:06:22Z")
Something I wanted to mention here when I saw it on the show and then totally forgot: Sansa defending Tyrion to Lysa and her wetboy (thank the 7 we didn’t have to see another shot of that large boy suckling). That surprised me. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/288 "2014-05-08T22:16:18Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Is that what Varys wants? He tells people he serves the realm, but seeing as he’s basically the leader of the Medieval NSA I think he might be bullshitting people about his true motivations. > > Way back in season 1 we saw Varys meeting in secret with Illyrio Magister of Pentos, and they were planning an invasion of Westeros. Illyrio is the one who gave Dany her dragon eggs and arranged her marriage to Khal Drogo. The last we heard of him is when Dany name dropped him as a reference to the Spice Trader in Qarth. > > So a strong and stable Seven Kingdoms was the last thing Varys wanted. He wanted to destabilize the realm so that the Dothraki could invade. What Varys and Illyrio were planning for post invasion Westeros, or what their plan is now that Khal Drogo is dead and Dany has gone all Sexy Dragon Messiah is anyone’s guess. Maybe he’s a Targaryen true believer. I like that idea, but I think I preferred thinking him as one of the few good guys (I took him at his word, although I really shouldn’t have). Where is he nowadays, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/289 "2014-05-08T23:10:43Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Maybe he’s a Targaryen true believer. I like that idea, but I think I preferred thinking him as one of the few good guys (I took him at his word, although I really shouldn’t have). Game of Thrones doesn’t have a clean dividing line between “good guys” and “bad guys”. It’s entirely possible that Varys is simultaneously a Targaryen true believer AND someone who generally will do things to promote the welfare of the common people of Westeros AND someone who will occasionally do horrible things in aid of his goals. We don’t really know much about him. > [@](#): > > Where is he nowadays, anyway? He’s around. I’m 99% sure we saw him in the audience at Tommen’s coronation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/290 "2014-05-09T01:07:57Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …[Varys is] around. I’m 99% sure we saw him in the audience at Tommen’s coronation. I remember him at Joffrey’s wedding, but not Tommen’s coronation. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/291 "2014-05-09T01:39:59Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Maybe he’s a Targaryen true believer. I like that idea, but I think I preferred thinking him as one of the few good guys (I took him at his word, although I really shouldn’t have). Where is he nowadays, anyway? I think he’s as close to a good guy as it gets for a King’s Landing lifer but I still wouldn’t go so far as to call him a “good guy”. Tyrion is my benchmark and there are precious few in Westeros that would be considered more moral men than he. Catelyn Stark for instance, would not pass. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/292 "2014-05-09T02:51:16Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think it’s important to note that the kids are unaware of their parentage. > > Joffrey idolized his “father.” Did Joffrey idolize Robert? I don’t remember him doing anything that would lead me to think that and IIRC Robert made some less than flattering comments about his son to Ned and remember the whole “you let yourself be disarmed by this little girl” incident. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/293 "2014-05-09T02:52:01Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Something I wanted to mention here when I saw it on the show and then totally forgot: Sansa defending Tyrion to Lysa and her wetboy (thank the 7 we didn’t have to see another shot of that large boy suckling). That surprised me. That didn’t surprise me at all. A teenager is bound to make friends on some level with someone she’s locked up with nightly, and who seems to respect her on some level, and also doesn’t rape her nightly as he has the right to do in that world. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/294 "2014-05-09T05:00:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Please tell me you’re not leading up to midichlorians. > \ Perhaps the inherited nanites have some mitichlorian-like properties. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/295 "2014-05-09T05:30:28Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > That didn’t surprise me at all. A teenager is bound to make friends on some level with someone she’s locked up with nightly, and who seems to respect her on some level, and also doesn’t rape her nightly as he has the right to do in that world. I read your post before the quoted part and thought the conversation was still about Gendry/Arya. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/296 "2014-05-09T05:50:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I remember him at Joffrey’s wedding, but not Tommen’s coronation. Varys was in line behind Maester Pycelle of those ascending the stairs to pay homage to the newly crowned Tommen sitting on the Iron Throne. It appeared as though he spoke with Tommen but the words were not shared with the audience, or I’m going deaf, which might be more likely. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/297 "2014-05-09T08:49:07Z")
You talking about the bald fat guy? Def saw him at both weddings - as immediately above, he was in the line and spoke to Tommen. We saw that at distance; his lady admirer was left of frame and mid-distance, the throne and people were right of frame at distance. ---
**Author:** ![Wolverine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/298 "2014-05-09T11:02:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Thanks, all, for the recaps. I swear I’ve seen every episode; I should have taken better notes. 🙂 > > Now I’m just hanging around, waiting for the weekly link to Game of Thrones On Facebook. Sorry. I assumed someone already posted it by now and I just didn’t see it. [Game of Thrones on Facebook S4E5](http://happyplace.someecards.com/31126/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-4-episode-5) The Hound shared Star Wars Kid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/299 "2014-05-09T12:10:00Z")
I disliked Lyssa’s exposition scene. Was there really no other way to reveal that? It also strikes me as something GRRM might have thought of later rather than really planning from the start. Poor bloody Sansa. I know lots of people hate her for not being proactive, but there’s really not a lot she can do since she’s always surrounded by multiple enemies. I wonder how Hodor is going to take being treated like an animal and used for killing? Not well, I think. The Cersei/Oberyn scene went on far longer than necessary. Overall, the pacing is totally shot and I’m starting to get a little bored. Threads like this keep me interested more than the show itself. > [@sohvan](#): > > If the other nobles sided with the Lannisters, Dany would be utterly crushed at least until her dragons are more fully grown. They’re probably still small enough to be killed by a single crossbowman. If some of the nobles sided with her, she’d have a good chance. There’s been a lot of civil wars in the past decades and a lot of resentment, so there should definitely be something to work with there. Only if they had arrows made of dragon…fire? Stone? Bane? Whatever that sword was made from that Sam killed the White Walker thing with. Dragons aren’t just big flying lizards, they’re magic, and they can’t be killed that easily even when they’re small. People have tried, remember? > [@Biggirl](#): > > Why did The Hound get so mad when Arya stabbed him. The last thing he heard before going to sleep was Arya’s wish to kill him. Then he taunts her and practically begs her to stab him. I don’t understand why he was so surprised. I think he kinda wants her to do well, preferably without him dying, and he was disappointed that she tried something that was so obvious to fail. > [@Shakester](#): > > Except that from what we’ve seen in the show, females only inherit if there are no close male relatives, not just siblings. > > There are plenty of Tyrells, so there is no reason to doubt that Loras & Margaery have plenty of uncles and/or male cousins to head the Tyrell family if necessary. I don’t think so. Everyone thinks Sansa’s brothers are all dead, so she’s considered the heir of Winterfell. She can’t rule in her own right (or perhaps she could if she pushed for it, but she’s Sansa), but her husband can rule for her and her children would be the heirs. If it were male-only then a nephew or first cousin once removed of Ned’s would be the heir. > [@Marley23](#): > > As I remember it, his words were “I serve the realm.” It’s fair to point out that Varys might not have been upfront about his motives, but serving the realm and wanting the Targaryens to be in charge are not mutually exclusive. He might believe they are the kingdom’s best chance at stability. It’s not like the Baratheons have been doing a bang-up job. Varys could never be King anyway, due to being a eunuch (remember, Jaime can’t be Tywin’s heir due to his oath that means he [Jamie] can’t have legal heirs; Varys also can’t have legal heirs). I think he genuinely does have the realm’s best interests at heart, but that doesn’t mean he has the “good guys”’ best interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/300 "2014-05-09T12:12:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps he doesn’t even want to be Hand to the King? He may be happier (and safer) wielding power from the shadows. I think littlefinger wants a revenge on life. I believe that having been snubded in his youth because he was of relatively humble origin (in particular too lowly to marry someone like Catelyn Stark), he will want to have a spot in the light, above all those mighty lords. Hence become king of the seven kingdoms. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=16)