# Game of Thrones 4.05 "The First Of His Name" 5/4/14 NO SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679 "2014-05-05T00:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/41 "2014-05-05T13:51:59Z")
Enough “oh shit” moments for two or three episodes here. The Lannisters are broke? What’s the Iron Bank of Bravos going to do if the crown defaults? Wreck their credit rating? Would you buy Westeros junk bonds? Cersei and Oberyn’s talk about Myrcella got me thinking. She’s engaged to some Martell or other. If Tommen dies, she’s the queen and the Martell’s get a whole lot more power than they have now. It feels like the story is shifting from the Lannisters sneakily usurping the throne to the Tyrrells and Martells fighting over marrying into it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/42 "2014-05-05T13:54:39Z")
Good episode, but they need to die Danny’s eyebrows to better match her hair. Cersei could use some, too. When was the last time we saw the dragons? CGI too expensive for HBO? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/43 "2014-05-05T13:58:53Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > Enough “oh shit” moments for two or three episodes here. The Lannisters are broke? What’s the Iron Bank of Bravos going to do if the crown defaults? Wreck their credit rating? Would you buy Westeros junk bonds? It’s been mentioned in the show that if you are a castle-owning level defaulter, the Iron Bank will fund an opponent’s army to attack you and get their money back from the spoils. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/44 "2014-05-05T14:03:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > What was the point of the whole Craster’s plotline these past two episodes? Jon is going back to Castle Black, and Bran is still going North. There’s so much going on, it seems like a waste of time to have this plot that changes nothing. They knew Mance Rayder was heading toward Castle Black with his army. Mance however doesn’t know that Castle Black only has 100 men defending it. If he knew this it would give him a strategic advantage. Jon Snow figured if Mance happened upon Craster’s on his way that he’d interrogate the guys he’d find there and they’d cough up the “only 100 men” info. So Snow and company decided to eliminate the possible leak. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/45 "2014-05-05T14:15:44Z")
Yeah but why not just have them die of starvation or killed by Walkers instead of making it a plot point to go get them? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/46 "2014-05-05T14:16:18Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > I remember someone being there and recognizing her - but I can’t remember who. My wife and I are watching all the prior seasons this week and next and we are near that part. Nobody recognizes her. She’s afraid Littlefinger might but he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/47 "2014-05-05T14:28:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah but why not just have them die of starvation or killed by Walkers instead of making it a plot point to go get them? How do you suppose the Night’s Watch could cause the mutineers to die of starvation or get attacked by white walkers? The whole point was that **the Night’s Watch** needed to silence the mutineers, not that “the plot” required them to be silenced. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/48 "2014-05-05T14:29:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah but why not just have them die of starvation or killed by Walkers instead of making it a plot point to go get them? I think because they had the same resources Craster had, so there’s no reason to think the mutineers won’t survive there just fine, at least for a little while longer. Or did the Watch supply them, in exchange for being a useful outpost? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/49 "2014-05-05T14:32:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah but why not just have them die of starvation or killed by Walkers instead of making it a plot point to go get them? Because there’s a pretty good chance Mance would capture them before any of that happens. To **Sam Lowry** ’s point, the entire purpose of these episodes was to close out Craster’s Keep plot line. The Bran & Co getting captured by the traitors and then Lock ended up mostly a Red Herring. Other than perhaps revealing to us that Bran thinks his mission is so important that he would make the difficult choice of not saying hello to his brother. > [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > The Lannisters are broke? What’s the Iron Bank of Bravos going to do if the crown defaults? Wreck their credit rating? Would you buy Westeros junk bonds? My sense is that the penalties of defaulting the Iron Bank are a bit stiffer than a low credit rating and that there aren’t a whole lot of options for a bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/50 "2014-05-05T14:33:26Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Nobody recognizes her. She’s afraid Littlefinger might but he doesn’t. My take on that scene was that Littlefinger _did_ recognise Arya, but decided to shut up about it because he didn’t see any way to turn it to his advantage, or because he thought not busting her might turn out to be to his advantage at some future time. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/51 "2014-05-05T14:40:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I would think that legally and officially, she could only get remarried if Tyrion dies. But there’s always a chance that Tyrion will not be executed. I wonder what happens to poor Sansa then. If she’d be forced to marry again anyway, since her aunt is crazy and dislikes Tyrion. Or maybe forced to marry since she’s not “Sansa” there, she’s whatever the fake name is they were calling her. Sansa is a virgin. Her marriage to Tyrion wasn’t consummated. We had this same discussion two episodes ago with regard to Margaery & Joffrey: no consummation = not legally married. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/52 "2014-05-05T14:44:03Z")
Also, is anyone else wondering what Cersei is up to? Being friendly to Margaery? Being acquiescent with Tywin? ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/53 "2014-05-05T14:45:35Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > They knew Mance Rayder was heading toward Castle Black with his army. Mance however doesn’t know that Castle Black only has 100 men defending it. If he knew this it would give him a strategic advantage. Jon Snow figured if Mance happened upon Craster’s on his way that he’d interrogate the guys he’d find there and they’d cough up the “only 100 men” info. So Snow and company decided to eliminate the possible leak. Has it been established whether or not Mance has heard about any of the crazy shit that’s been going down at Craster’s place lately (well, even more so than usual)? He’s already got forces south of the Wall, so it seems pretty negligent of him not to have preemptively sent scouts or outriders or something that way. I was also thinking that maybe Snow and company would try for some stealth kills since the mutineers were drunk and not expecting an attack, but instead they just ran in yelling and waving their swords. They still ended up with a favorable kill ratio, but I’d be thinking that loyal brothers are a rare and valuable resource at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/54 "2014-05-05T14:45:46Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Because there’s a pretty good chance Mance would capture them before any of that happens. To **Sam Lowry** ’s point, the entire purpose of these episodes was to close out Craster’s Keep plot line. I’m not talking about in-world reasoning. I’m talking about plotting. The screenwriters could have simply ignored this entire subplot of resolving the Craster’s Keep story. If it came up – “oh, they all died.” Simple. The subplot was unnecessary unless they were going to do something consequential with it. As it stands, the Jon Snow and Bran plot lines are reset to where they were before this diversion. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/55 "2014-05-05T14:49:21Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Has it been established whether or not Mance has heard about any of the crazy shit that’s been going down at Craster’s place lately (well, even more so than usual)? He’s already got forces south of the Wall, so it seems pretty negligent of him not to have preemptively sent scouts or outriders or something that way. The Night’s Watch was worried that Mance might capture the mutineers. There’s no reason he’d know of what’s been happening, only that he’d probably find out at some point unless the mutineers were silenced. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/56 "2014-05-05T14:50:06Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Also, is anyone else wondering what Cersei is up to? Being friendly to Margaery? Being acquiescent with Tywin? Kissing up to Tywin is obviously to get him to rule against Tyrion, but i didn’t get why she was being nice to Margaery. When she got in between her and Tomnen during the coronation i thought their conversation was going to go the complete opposite way. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/57 "2014-05-05T14:50:33Z")
Excellent episode. I’m very surprised that the “big reveal” isn’t getting more discussion. Littlefinger started this whole thing in motion - seduced Lysa, got her to poison her husband and to send a letter to Caitlin claiming it was the Lannisters. And we now also know from last week he was instrumental in the death of Joffrey with the aid of the Queen of Thrones. Everything we thought we knew was wrong - MUHAHA!! I liked the scenes at Craster’s Keep, especially Jolene’s (sp?) parts. I did comment to Mrs. MeanJoe that it sure was an awkward angle for Jon to stab him through the head, seems it would have been easier just to run him through via the back. Naturally the Misses pointed out that wouldn’t look as cool on t.v. Daenery’s… still unbearably boring. The meeting with her counselors was good though, she definitely showed us that she values Ser Jorah as a capable advisor. But anyway, “I shall rule!” - Yeah, okay… Zzzzzz! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/58 "2014-05-05T14:52:12Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Interesting to learn that Littlefinger and Lysa colluded to kill Jon Arryn. More than interesting. That’s a bombshell that completely turns this series on its side I think. John Arryn dying and Kat’s belief the Lannister’s did it are what drove the events of this entire series into motion and colored our perceptions of the Lannisters from early on. The Lannisters are not nice people, to be sure (with exceptions of course) but I think Varys’ comment that Littlefiger would burn the Kingdom down of he thought he could rule the ashes (paraphrasing) is right on point. Eta: Cersei was nice to Margery because she is pragmatic and loves her children. She knows that is what is best for her son. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/59 "2014-05-05T14:52:48Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > My take on that scene was that Littlefinger _did_ recognise Arya, but decided to shut up about it because he didn’t see any way to turn it to his advantage, or because he thought not busting her might turn out to be to his advantage at some future time. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/60 "2014-05-05T14:55:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m not talking about in-world reasoning. I’m talking about plotting. The screenwriters could have simply ignored this entire subplot of resolving the Craster’s Keep story. If it came up – “oh, they all died.” Simple. The subplot was unnecessary unless they were going to do something consequential with it. As it stands, the Jon Snow and Bran plot lines are reset to where they were before this diversion. Well, no they’re not: Locke is dead, which solves the immediate threat to Bran & Jon from Locke and, in the medium term, the threat from Bolton. Aside from that, it continues the theme of Starks almost but never quite meeting up that has been going on for many episodes now. Aside from _that_, we _did_ need to see what happened to the mutineers, because that storyline needed resolution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=4)