# Game of Thrones 4.05 "The First Of His Name" 5/4/14 NO SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679 "2014-05-05T00:46:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/141 "2014-05-06T00:48:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > If he’d really been mad, Arya would be dead now, and possibly would have been raped before and/or after the killing. The Hound is a huge, powerful man in full battle armor with tons of combat experience. Arya is a little girl with a tiny sword, no armor, and no meaningful experience in actual combat. If she wants to kill him, she’s got to do it while he’s sleeping, seriously wounded, or otherwise significantly disadvantaged. It’s obvious he knew she couldn’t kill him because if she could, he wouldn’t have egged her on. But he did and then acted surprised and a little hurt that she tried. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/142 "2014-05-06T00:50:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I wouldn’t assume he hit her because he was mad. He’s The Hound. Violence is kind of his thing. I thought his primary reason for hitting her was proving his point - he does not come from a house where people said “use your words” - and he has no reason to be afraid she’s going to kill him. They’ve been together for months and she could’ve killed him any night, but she hasn’t. To him, that means she won’t do it. I thought it was meant to be a direct comparison to Bronn smacking Jamie with his own hand in their training. He wasn’t angry at her, he was trying to help her the same way Bronn was trying to help Jamie. He just, like Bronn, comes from the Vince Lombardi school of sword training. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/143 "2014-05-06T01:08:06Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Now I really want to see the tywin/baelish scene and gauge his reaction to Arya. I just rewatched the scene it’s hard to tell but I think he recognized her. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/144 "2014-05-06T01:13:33Z")
> [@grude](#): > > What will winter be like exactly?I thought winter started last season with those ravens sent out, but there is no snow or anything to be seen except past the wall(even right south of the wall it isn’t wintery yet). I mean will all of Westeros be under snow? All of Essoes? Or just the north area around the wall and Winterfell. > > And how exactly effective would it be having a male army castrated as toddlers/young children be? I honestly don’t know how it would effect strength or musculature, seems the lack of testosterone and lack of puberty wouldn’t produce better fighters. > (I’m unclear if the Unsullied are only castrated or also have their penii removed!) It’s been a while and i don’t remember it fully but i am fairly sure the ravens signaled the end of summer, not the beginning of winter. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/145 "2014-05-06T03:14:16Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > …This just in, Cersei is still an evil bitch. Color me surprised that Tywin Lannister gives a flaming fuck about ex parte communication before the coming trial. It’s not like there’s a judicial performance committee to hear a complaint against him… I took that as Tywin being sick & tired of listening to Cersei bitch & moan about Tyrion killing poor Joffrey ad nauseam and using judicial propriety as an excuse to shut her up. That’s got to be annoying even if he does hate Tyrion and believes him guilty. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yeah, my jaw dropped at that. > > I also loved the way Baelish was trying to shut her up as she was basically bragging about killing her husband and setting in motion the chain of events that led to the murder of her sister and the destruction of her sister’s family… For awhile I thought Lysa had recovered her sanity, but nope she’s just as crazy & unstable as ever. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …I would think that legally and officially, she could only get remarried if Tyrion dies. But there’s always a chance that Tyrion will not be executed. I wonder what happens to poor Sansa then. If she’d be forced to marry again anyway, since her aunt is crazy and dislikes Tyrion. Or maybe forced to marry since she’s not “Sansa” there, she’s whatever the fake name is they were calling her. Well it’s clear from dialogue on the show that consummating the marriage has as much legal/social significance in Westeros as it did in Medieval Europe. I imagine the Faith has some rare & complex process for annulling/dissolving a marriage that only the nobles resort to on rare occasions, but widowhood is a quicker & surer way freeing one up for remarriage. Also Sansa is in hiding and even she wasn’t the High Septon lives in a city controlled by the Lannisters. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Kissing up to Tywin is obviously to get him to rule against Tyrion, but i didn’t get why she was being nice to Margaery. When she got in between her and Tomnen during the coronation i thought their conversation was going to go the complete opposite way. Yes, that was really strange (didn’t she threated to kill Margaery the last she called her “Sister”?), but it makes sense if she’s kissing up to Lord Tyrell. I doubt Margaery really fell for it though; Olenna sure as hell wouldn’t. > [@msmith537](#): > > Nitpick - Janos Slynt was Lord Commander of the City Guard (Gold Cloaks), not the King’s Guard. Although it’s not clear how he automatically moves into a leadership position as a relatively new member of the Night’s Watch… It was pointed out in once of the other threads that most recruits to the Watch are common criminals and family screw-ups so a recruit with actual military command experience would be pretty impressive. > [@Acsenray](#): > > How old is Margaery supposed to be? I assume she was older than Joffrey, who was a teenager. So perhaps in her early 20s, at most? > > But in this episode, Margaery and Cersei seemed to be about the same age. Cersei is in her early 40s… Margaery is in her early 20s at most; defiantly no younger than Joffrey. Even if they have to wait awhile to Tommen to actually consummate the marriage she has many years of fertility ahead of her. Cersei on the other hand is approaching menopause, even Loras had sex with her she’s not going to produce an heir. House Tyrell doesn’t benefit from a match with her, but he Lannisters sure do. Assuming Loras doesn’t have any younger brothers Highgarden passed to Margery, who’s heirs would conveniently be Lannisters, and House Tyrell get’s subsumed by House Lannister. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think very many houses would flock to her cause. Dorne maybe, but nobody else has any reason to support her. At this point i assume nobody thinks “because she is the rightful heir” will convince anyone. The other houses will flock to her if they decide she’s the lesser of two evils and/or the only capable of restoring order to Westeros, at which point they’ll declare they this whole time they were all secretly praying to the Seven Gods that the rightful heir would return to the Iron Throne. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/146 "2014-05-06T04:19:03Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > …It was pointed out in once of the other threads that most recruits to the Watch are common criminals and family screw-ups so a recruit with actual military command experience would be pretty impressive…. Well, if not family screw-ups, family… unwanted children. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > …Margaery is in her early 20s at most; defiantly no younger than Joffrey… “I refuse to be any more immature than the latest Mad King!” ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/147 "2014-05-06T05:42:00Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Assuming Loras doesn’t have any younger brothers Highgarden passed to Margery, who’s heirs would conveniently be Lannisters, and House Tyrell get’s subsumed by House Lannister. Except that from what we’ve seen in the show, females only inherit if there are no close male relatives, not just siblings. There are plenty of Tyrells, so there is no reason to doubt that Loras & Margaery have plenty of uncles and/or male cousins to head the Tyrell family if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/148 "2014-05-06T12:24:17Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The official line is that they’re Robert Baratheon’s legitimate children/heirs. Are you seriously saying you didn’t know that? I guess I am…how embarassing for me :eek: !! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/149 "2014-05-06T12:47:50Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I don’t believe we know the answer to this without drawing on non-show sources. Certainly Kings landing doesn’t look like it would cope with a long cold winter very well. You’d think it would have been designed quite differently if they commonly faced many year long periods of snow down there. There have been a number of references to the southern kingdoms (the Tyrells and everyone in Dorne) having no problems with winter. And I think that King’s Landing is unaffected as well - I think Ned said something in Season 1 to that effect. Of course, a very heavy winter could trickle pretty far south - and I don’t think things are leading to a quick one. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/150 "2014-05-06T14:19:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Not to risk spoilers, but it’s also not clear what Littlefinger’s end game is by marrying into the Vale, assuming his eventual goal is to sit on the Iron Throne. I thought he spelled that out pretty well in this episode (he does have a penchant for monologuing): in all the seven kingdoms, there’s one stronghold that has never been conquered, has never been razed, whose gates resisted every army for a thousand years, no matter how many weapons or men. It’s now his, and he came in through the front door, on his own and unarmed (save that perpetual smirk and accent of his). ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/151 "2014-05-06T14:36:04Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I thought he spelled that out pretty well in this episode (he does have a penchant for monologuing): in all the seven kingdoms, there’s one stronghold that has never been conquered, has never been razed, whose gates resisted every army for a thousand years, no matter how many weapons or men. > > It’s now his, and he came in through the front door, on his own and unarmed (save that perpetual smirk and accent of his). How might The Vale though enforce their demands of rule on the rest of the world while being holed up in the clouds? Also, from the looks of the surrounding terrain, not suitable for crops or herd animals, a locale that would be vulnerable to siege. It might be an impossible fortress to penetrate but that would work in reverse, too - only one way in and one way out has its disadvantages. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/152 "2014-05-06T14:42:58Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > There have been a number of references to the southern kingdoms (the Tyrells and everyone in Dorne) having no problems with winter. And I think that King’s Landing is unaffected as well - I think Ned said something in Season 1 to that effect. Of course, a very heavy winter could trickle pretty far south - and I don’t think things are leading to a quick one. And yet we’ve twice seen visions of the throne room in King’s Landing with the roof off and snow falling. > [@Ostrya](#): > > How might The Vale though enforce their demands of rule on the rest of the world while being holed up in the clouds? Also, from the looks of the surrounding terrain, not suitable for crops or herd animals, a locale that would be vulnerable to siege. It might be an impossible fortress to penetrate but that would work in reverse, too - only one way in and one way out has its disadvantages. I’m sure that, in a thousand years, someone’s had the idea of trying to starve the Vale out. Seems obvious they can feed their own. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/153 "2014-05-06T14:47:03Z")
Oh come on, the guy basically schemed his way from nothing to pretty much lord of a kingdom and people wonder why? Every step up he takes puts him closer to his goal. Having his own kingdom gets him closer to having everything than not having it would. It really isn’t terribly complicated. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/154 "2014-05-06T14:47:28Z")
Getting to be lord of one of the seven kingdoms is an obvious upgrade for Baelish. He has an inside route - apparently Lysa has always had a thing for him. It’s not as if he could just decide he’d rather have the westlands or the reach. In just a few years, he went from being lord of a small insignificant little piece of land to having a significant property in Harrenhall, and then one of the seven Kingdoms. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/155 "2014-05-06T14:52:00Z")
Sansa on the proposition of Robyn as her future husband… “Tyrion is not such as bad choice after all” ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/156 "2014-05-06T14:58:38Z")
Given that we’ve seen what dragons did to Harrenhall, why couldn’t they do that to the Vale? Rhetorical question, if there is an answer it’d have to be a spoiler. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/157 "2014-05-06T14:59:32Z")
> [@Ostrya](#): > > How might The Vale though enforce their demands of rule on the rest of the world while being holed up in the clouds? Also, from the looks of the surrounding terrain, not suitable for crops or herd animals, a locale that would be vulnerable to siege. It might be an impossible fortress to penetrate but that would work in reverse, too - only one way in and one way out has its disadvantages. If anything, the Vale would be the perfect place to use the unsullied, as long as you have enough of them. Defense is great, if your flinging arrows at troops marching up that path three wide, and dropping boulders or causing avalanches to block strategic choke points. But with the dragons flying close support, it becomes a problem. I take it, part of the vale’s strategy was to use fewer soldiers to hold a strong point, and not have a large standing force, at least on that side of the throat. Just looking at the aerie objectively, it was probably one of the dragon staging posts for the Targaryens. I wonder how much Dani would know of the place. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/158 "2014-05-06T15:02:05Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Given that we’ve seen what dragons did to Harrenhall, why couldn’t they do that to the Vale? > > Rhetorical question, if there is an answer it’d have to be a spoiler. At a guess, the vale was built into a mountain. Harrenhall was strictly a conventional castle. If the dragons are using napalm of some sort, then it would depend on the melting point of the construction materials. Declan ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/159 "2014-05-06T15:06:13Z")
For the record: Caitlyn Stark has done more damage and caused more chaos than Tywinn or the whole Lannister clan ever could. 1. She started Ned down the “Lannisters killed Arryn” road with no due diligence/fact checking. 2. She released Jamie as “trade bait” with zero understanding or even rationale on the situation. 3. She arrested Tyrion emotionally and without much proof 4. Little finger who is the source of all evil, would be dead if Caitlyn did not beg for his life to be spared. I will admit the show would be 50% more boring without all the chaos and %^&ups she caused, but damn that woman was a black plague on the Stark house fortunes. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679/160 "2014-05-06T15:11:20Z")
> [@Ostrya](#): > > How might The Vale though enforce their demands of rule on the rest of the world while being holed up in the clouds? Also, from the looks of the surrounding terrain, not suitable for crops or herd animals, a locale that would be vulnerable to siege. It might be an impossible fortress to penetrate but that would work in reverse, too - only one way in and one way out has its disadvantages. I don’t think he intends to use it as stronghold for any conquests or wars—he’s just crossed it off his ‘to do’ list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-05-the-first-of-his-name-5-4-14-no-spoilers/687679.md?page=9)