# Game of Thrones 4.06 "The Laws of Gods and Men" 5/11/14 NO SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219 "2014-05-11T23:59:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/161 "2014-05-13T16:43:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Does she know that? I’m not sure anyone but Littlefinger and Ned knew about that arrangement. I think it would have been clear enough to those who were there that Littlefinger betrayed Ned in some way when Ned obviously expected Littlefinger’s Gold Cloaks to follow him, but instead they slaughtered his men from behind while Littlefinger held a knife to Ned’s throat. And there’s no way Olenna would have missed out on that little piece of drama. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/162 "2014-05-13T17:03:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > At the time we didn’t know Lady Olenna was a murderer. That conversation does sound very different at this distance and it’s a great find. Is she working with Varys to oppose Littlefinger? Did she realize Littlefinger could be a useful business partner? I think it could go either way, but the scene gives you the impression she’s conspiring with Varys. Of course, she could both work with Littlefinger to kill Joffrey and work with Varys to oppose Littlefinger. No, they’re not interested in protecting Sansa as such. Keep in mind that shortly after that was when the marriage between Sansa and Loris was proposed, so I really think that is the solution being referred to in that scene. The marriage would both protect Sansa and further shore up the Tyrell’s position. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/163 "2014-05-13T18:03:22Z")
And Ser Loras was _super_ excited about planning the wedding! ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/164 "2014-05-13T19:31:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > At the time we didn’t know Lady Olenna was a murderer. That conversation does sound very different at this distance and it’s a great find. Is she working with Varys to oppose Littlefinger? Did she realize Littlefinger could be a useful business partner? I think it could go either way, but the scene gives you the impression she’s conspiring with Varys. Of course, she could both work with Littlefinger to kill Joffrey and work with Varys to oppose Littlefinger. No, they’re not interested in protecting Sansa as such. Turning Sansa over to Littlefinger and getting her the hell out of King’s Landing was probably the best thing for her. She is the daughter of a traitor to the crown, hated by the Queen Regent, has her only value in producing a Winterfell heir and now the wife of a new kingslayer, so her life was not going to get any better and a family trip to Highgarden was really no longer in her immeadiate future. Sansa does not have much going for her, but she is now in a safe location (relatively) with family who might protect her (sort of) and with a guy who has an interest in keeping her safe (even if it comes from a place of ultimate skeeviness). It ain’t much but she is still doing better than the rest of her family. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/165 "2014-05-13T19:35:08Z")
I’m surprised Danereys let that guy take his father’s body down for a ‘proper’ burial after his plea. I thought for sure she would make it contingent on making sure all the slave children got ther ‘proper’ burial first. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/166 "2014-05-13T19:37:58Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Turning Sansa over to Littlefinger and getting her the hell out of King’s Landing was probably the best thing for her. She is the daughter of a traitor to the crown, hated by the Queen Regent, has her only value in producing a Winterfell heir and now the wife of a new kingslayer, so her life was not going to get any better and a family trip to Highgarden was really no longer in her immeadiate future. Sansa does not have much going for her, but she is now in a safe location (relatively) with family who might protect her (sort of) and with a guy who has an interest in keeping her safe (even if it comes from a place of ultimate skeeviness). It ain’t much but she is still doing better than the rest of her family. But Olenna and Littlefinger are the ones who chose to implicate her in the plot in the first place. At this point it seems to me there was only one reason to put the poison on her necklace and then spirit her out of King’s Landing: to make her and Tyrion look guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/167 "2014-05-13T19:43:36Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m surprised Danereys let that guy take his father’s body down for a ‘proper’ burial after his plea. I thought for sure she would make it contingent on making sure all the slave children got ther ‘proper’ burial first. We don’t exactly know if she already had the unsullied do that, or even the logistics train that would have been following the troops. She did not give me the impression that she would have left the bodies of the innocent. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/168 "2014-05-13T20:01:33Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > We don’t exactly know if she already had the unsullied do that, or even the logistics train that would have been following the troops. She did not give me the impression that she would have left the bodies of the innocent. > > Declan I’m pretty sure she ordered someone to bury all of the slave children that were crucified as they were riding toward the city, but she wanted it done after they rode past them. She wanted to see all of them. I might be misremembering the scene, but I recall thinking to myself that it would really suck to be given that task. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/169 "2014-05-13T21:09:05Z")
Since I’ve never read any of the books, I have to ask… around what stage of the Fire and Ice saga has the TV series reached? Overall, about how many episodes of the TV series come from any one book? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/170 "2014-05-13T21:11:41Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Tywin is extremely wise and his integrity is impeccable. Moreover, he serves a greater good, not only his family line, but the kingdom itself. I’m a minority of one, but I do give him more moral credit than you guys. > > I mean, “more moral credit” doesn’t mean he’s a good guy. He doesn’t have an ounce of kindness. He doesn’t care about anyone’s suffering. So he’s not good. That’s mostly true- and yet he was rather kind to Arya, when she was under his control. Oh, he might well have killed her if she’d known who she really was, but he treated her rather tenderly, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/171 "2014-05-13T21:35:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > … around what stage of the Fire and Ice saga has the TV series reached? You should ask this in one of the other threads. This one (in theory) forbids any discussion of anything outside the show itself. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/172 "2014-05-13T22:33:03Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > That’s mostly true- and yet he was rather kind to Arya, when she was under his control. Oh, he might well have killed her if she’d known who she really was, but he treated her rather tenderly, I thought. I thought he was thinking of her as a possible asset–she seemed capable and insightful, probably useful for some purpose or other down the road, with the right education. I also thought he suspected her to be more than she let on. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/173 "2014-05-13T22:59:25Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I thought he was thinking of her as a possible asset–she seemed capable and insightful, probably useful for some purpose or other down the road, with the right education. > > I also thought he suspected her to be more than she let on. I think he respects spunk and intelligence and resourcefulness. Most of the time, when he sees those traits in someone, it’s either in a potential ally or a potential enemy, and he has to be busily scheming how to destroy/capture/entangle that person. But a 10 year old female cupbearer is so very clearly not a threat that he just got to relax and enjoy some banter with her, something that he very rarely gets to do. If he thought there was even the slightest chance that she was actually a potentially valuable hostage he would have taken precautions to keep her from escaping, etc. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/174 "2014-05-13T23:14:47Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > And Ser Loras was _super_ excited about planning the wedding! I loved Sansa’s confused reaction. It’s unlikely she’s even aware homosexuality exists, but she’s clearly picked up on how odd Loras’s comments are. > [@Airbeck](#): > > I’m pretty sure she ordered someone to bury all of the slave children that were crucified as they were riding toward the city, but she wanted it done after they rode past them. She wanted to see all of them. I might be misremembering the scene, but I recall thinking to myself that it would really suck to be given that task. She did order all the slave children buried, _after_ she rode past & saw them. She also specified that she wanted their chains removed prior to burial. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/175 "2014-05-13T23:39:38Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Since I’ve never read any of the books, I have to ask… around what stage of the Fire and Ice saga has the TV series reached? > > Overall, about how many episodes of the TV series come from any one book? PM’d you the answer. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/176 "2014-05-14T00:03:02Z")
Sorry for missing the goat bit, guys. I only remember seeing the rib bits. > [@Frylock](#): > > I thought he was thinking of her as a possible asset–she seemed capable and insightful, probably useful for some purpose or other down the road, with the right education. > > I also thought he suspected her to be more than she let on. Didn’t he call her out for being highborn outright when she showed that she knew the history of Harrenhall? If so, his interest would be 50/50 taking a shine to her and 50% trying to figure out how to maximize her value. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/177 "2014-05-14T00:24:29Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Didn’t he call her out for being highborn outright when she showed that she knew the history of Harrenhall? If so, his interest would be 50/50 taking a shine to her and 50% trying to figure out how to maximize her value. He had his doubts because he “hadn’t ever met an educated stonemason”, but it’s her pronunciation of Milord that gave her away for good. He also sussed out she was from the North, but I don’t think he figured out exactly who she was - he’d have used her as a hostage in a New York minute if he had. Tywin would have personally skullfucked every person in Westeros, living or dead, if it had meant winning the war. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/178 "2014-05-14T02:22:00Z")
[Facebook recap](http://happyplace.someecards.com/2014/05/13/got-recap-season-4/if-game-of-thrones-took-place-entirely-on-facebook-season-4-episode-6/)’s up, with a cameo from Mr. T! “This show is going to be a lot goatier now that we’re major characters, son.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/179 "2014-05-14T03:54:18Z")
Funny. What’s with the Colbert pic, though? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219/180 "2014-05-14T04:22:15Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Didn’t Tywin say “The crown may call it’s next witness”? Alternatively, in countries where the institute of monarchy exists (at least in the UK), criminal justice cases are based on historical basis, referred to as “The Crown vs The Defendant”, so perhaps this just reflected that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-06-the-laws-of-gods-and-men-5-11-14-no-spoilers/688219.md?page=10)