# Game of Thrones 4.08 "The Mountain and the Viper" 6/1/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809 "2014-06-02T03:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/241 "2014-06-03T21:17:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This episode was the first time I recall him wanting a confession. He has always been fixated on killing The Mountain. Well, he said more than once that he was there to kill Lannisters. The Mountain was only a pawn used by the Lannisters, so clearly he had higher aims. The confession from Clegane was another step on the path toward revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/242 "2014-06-03T21:54:24Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > The thing is, Oberyn’s goal was not to win the fight and save Tyrion. His goal was to avenge his sister and get the confession. He was doing exactly what he came to do. In his eyes, if he’d pressed the attack and finished off Clegane, he’d have _failed his mission._ He was absolutely prepared to die before giving up and conceding. No. he got cocky and overreached. Yes, he wanted the confession but not over his own life. We know that Oberon is considered the loser because Tywin told us so right after it happened. They did not leave it ambiguous. Tyrion is guilty and will be executed. However, Tyrion is not going to die this season for two reasons: 1. Tywin still wants to make a deal with Jamie and is in a position to get Tommen to pardon Tyrion or to help Jamie with an escape plan. 2. Tyrion’s death would overshadow the next two episodes. The producers have already bragged on how much action they have packed into the last few episodes. They don’t want to spend all that money on action and have the audience focused on Tyrion’s death. Next episode is about the wall. I don’t know what the last episode is about but I cannot imagine Tyrion dying in final episode of the season. They want the audience excited for next season. Not bummed out. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/243 "2014-06-03T23:54:11Z")
[This was my family while watching the episode.](http://i.imgur.com/8u8tXLp.gif) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/244 "2014-06-04T00:19:52Z")
Have there been any scenes with Tommen and either Tyrion or Jamie? Do we know what Tommen thinks of them personally? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/245 "2014-06-04T01:29:22Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Have there been any scenes with Tommen and either Tyrion or Jamie? Do we know what Tommen thinks of them personally? The only one that I can remember with Jaime, is that one particular scene with Joffery on the slab, and Tywin is instructing Tommen on king stuff. Dont remember any with Tyrion , other than the beginning of the trial. Declan ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/246 "2014-06-04T01:36:45Z")
They all had breakfast together at winterfell in season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/247 "2014-06-04T02:08:31Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > [This was my family while watching the episode.](http://i.imgur.com/8u8tXLp.gif) Which one is you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/248 "2014-06-04T02:08:40Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They all had breakfast together at winterfell in season 1. Yes, and as I recall, the two younger kids adored their uncle Tyrion. He made them laugh with minimal effort, and he showed real warmth toward them. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/249 "2014-06-04T02:47:57Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > The strong crush the weak. That’s the way the world works. There is no why. That’s what I got out of it. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > That would be an interesting contrast with the previous young king. The official sentence against Ned was that he would be sent to the Wall, but Joffrey decreed that he would be beheaded instead. The official sentence against Tyrion is that he is to be beheaded. Perhaps Tommen will decree that he will be sent to the Wall instead… Ned was actually sentenced to death (what’s why they the executioner on the scaffold with them), Joffrey was supposed to commute his sentence after he recanted his accusations. Joffrey being Joffrey was the one who veered off script and ordered the death sentence carried out. > [@Marley23](#): > > I think perhaps we’re assuming that Tommen can only be under the influence of one person. That’s not really true. We have at least three people competing to get the last word in his ear, and Margaery has only just started to work her way in. She’s up against Tommen’s powerful grandfather and his mother. I don’t see either Tywin or Cersei having sex with Tommen. Even if Cersei’s perverted enough to try all it would do is freak Tommen out and enrage Tywin enough to have her shipped off to some maximum security septa convent. > [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Have there been any scenes with Tommen and either Tyrion or Jamie? Do we know what Tommen thinks of them personally? Well there was that scene at the wedding were Tommen was laughing at the dwarves along with everyone else until he looked at his Tyrion’s expression. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/250 "2014-06-04T02:50:26Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Turns out might does make right because fuck you that’s why, life is unfair Turns out brains do beat brawn, because fuck the guy who should have known better. That’s, like, the _definition_ of fair; the dude made his own luck. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/251 "2014-06-04T03:23:37Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Yes, and as I recall, the two younger kids adored their uncle Tyrion. He made them laugh with minimal effort, and he showed real warmth toward them. > [@alphaboi867](#): > > Well there was that scene at the wedding were Tommen was laughing at the dwarves along with everyone else until he looked at his Tyrion’s expression. Right, right. And while Jamie couldn’t openly act fatherly toward the kids, he presumably wanted to, and he must have spent time with them trying to be a beloved uncle. I know when I was an adolescent, I adored my adult siblings (didn’t have uncles) and would certainly have sided with them against my mom if it came down to it. Sure, Tyrion is accused of killing Tommen’s brother - but does anyone here think Joffrey _didn’t_ torment Tommen mercilessly when he could get away with it? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/252 "2014-06-04T03:57:18Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > Sure, Tyrion is accused of killing Tommen’s brother - but does anyone here think Joffrey _didn’t_ torment Tommen mercilessly when he could get away with it? Actually we have it from Tommen’s own mouth that Joffrey tormented him, along with presumably every other living thing Joffrey ever encountered. Joffrey threatened to kill Tommen’s cat ( **Ser Pounce** , a totally awesome medieval cat name ) and have it cooked up for Tommen in such a way he wouldn’t realize he was eating his beloved pet. Tommen may be _theoretically_ sad his older brother was murdered, but like presumably every other living thing Joffrey ever encountered minus Cersei and _maybe_ Jaime, Tommen is probably secretly relieved Joffrey is gone. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/253 "2014-06-04T05:19:40Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > …Tommen is probably secretly relieved Joffrey is gone. It probably also helps ease his grief just a bit that he inherited Joff’s crown and his hot wife… ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/254 "2014-06-04T07:00:18Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > It probably also helps ease his grief just a bit that he inherited Joff’s crown and his hot wife… Well…at least the second. Remains to be seen if he actually wanted to be king. If you’re serious about it, it is in some ways a thankless job and they do seem to have a nasty habit of dieing suddenly. Kinda better from my pov to be the wealthy relative of a king, at least a few removes from the line of succession. Court pensioner/parasite seems like a much more relaxed vocation :). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/255 "2014-06-04T08:23:17Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Turns out brains do beat brawn, because fuck the guy who should have known better. That’s, like, the _definition_ of fair; the dude made his own luck. Oh yes, absolutely. Like I said, Oberyn semi-secretly being damaged goods pretty directly led to his impromptu impression of a watermelon on Letterman. I was referring to the fact that the way this particular type of scene plays out in fantasy (and kung fu movies, now that I think about it) the weedy but better trained fellow wins, which “proves” that life is fair, skill and hard work beats genetics and so on. Bit of wish fulfilment there on the part of fantasy writers if’n you askin’ me, as I doubt a great many of them were captains of the football team, but there you go 😛 ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/256 "2014-06-04T14:28:40Z")
So in a somewhat parallel scene to the one where Tywin teaches Tommen about being a king, I can see Uncle Kingslayer (whose head is quite notably still attached to his body) asking Tommen to consider what often happens when kings don’t show mercy towards their subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/257 "2014-06-04T14:46:12Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > …I don’t see either Tywin or Cersei having sex with Tommen… :eek: Nor do I. Ew ew ew. Pass the brain bleach, please. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/258 "2014-06-04T15:04:08Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > I have a strong stomach for gore and violence and even I felt it flip at Oberyn. … > > I dunno, I came to this thread just to say this even if nobody else brought it up. I just wanted to say it, really. I’m with you. It doesn’t stop me from being a fan, but I covered my eyes at the end. Each episode, when HBO puts up the reasons for the TV-MA rating, there’s always Violence Language Nudity. But when it’s \*Graphic \*Violence (like this week’s)…I think: oh, no… ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/259 "2014-06-04T15:26:26Z")
The gore was bad, but in my opinion the screams were worse. _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/260 "2014-06-04T15:45:11Z")
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