# Game of Thrones 4.08 "The Mountain and the Viper" 6/1/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809 "2014-06-02T03:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/281 "2014-06-04T23:18:25Z")
> [@Flander](#): > > [Facebook recap is up!](http://happyplace.someecards.com/got-recap-season-4/if-game-of-thrones-took-place-entirely-on-facebook-season-4-episode-8/) FlayPal – I’m dying over here! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/282 "2014-06-04T23:52:40Z")
_The Mountain:_ Challenge accepted! ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/283 "2014-06-05T00:08:08Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I mean, the Mountain is evil. Really, really evil. Sociopathically evil. And so are the people who keep him around to kill their enemies for them. Well, yeah, obviously. Am I missing the point? > [@msmith537](#): > > Do people in Westeros have soft skulls or something? Because it seems ridiculously easy to pierce people’s heads with swords, spears and arrows or to even crush someone’s head with your bare hands. I mean the Mountain is a big man and all. But I’m not sure it’s possible to crush a mans head like that. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Ever see _The Walking Dead_? 😛 Ever see [Zombie Go Boom](https://www.youtube.com/user/ZombieGoBoomTV)? It’s a YouTube channel where various weapons (and improvised weapons) are tested against model zombie heads. The later episodes use models the creators claim are almost entirely accurate in simulated skin, bone and brain. I used to think The Walking Dead was ridiculously exaggerated in terms of head destruction, but seeing the effects of even blunt weapons on those model heads has made me rethink. That said, I’m still a little sceptical of the idea that a man could crush another man’s skull with his hands. > [@o0oTOPCATo0o](#): > > P.S. How about the Bolton flags? it is literally a picture of someone being tortured. It’s “The Flayed Man”. It has been mentioned a few times in sigil lessons, and there have been a few references to their tradition of flaying their enemies. I’m a little unclear as to why such glorification of sadism is seemingly considered appropriate in Westeros. It’s a pretty violent place, but there’s violence and then there’s having a fucking flayed man as your family banner. If anyone has indicated that they see it as in a different league to a stag or a fish, I’ve missed it. I hope someone mentions it. > [@o0oTOPCATo0o](#): > > Just to nitpick back, I called it a bug. > [@Marley23](#): > > As long as it’s not a goddamned potato. Quite possibly a [potato bug](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armadillidium_vulgare). ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/284 "2014-06-05T01:12:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As long as it’s not a goddamned potato. But is it part dragon? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/285 "2014-06-05T06:53:00Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That said, I’m still a little sceptical of the idea that a man could crush another man’s skull with his hands. I just happened to watch _Star Trek: Into Darkness_ tonight and had forgotten that’s how Khan kills the bad guy admiral with the line “You should have let me sleep!” The admiral’s daughter had a pretty similar reaction as Oberyn’s lady. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/286 "2014-06-05T07:44:21Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > I had a massive crush on Oberyn So did the Mountain. _ba dum dum_ ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/287 "2014-06-05T11:22:48Z")
Add me to the list of people who _didn’t_ see Oberyn’s death coming. Sure, he showboated, but there are other cocky fighters in the series e.g. Daario. With the Mountain on the ground (appropriately enough), the only drama I saw coming was Tywin would be named and shamed. So GoT, once again…well played. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/288 "2014-06-05T11:34:53Z")
He didn’t really showboat. Showboating is saying “look at me, look how great I am” - his reason for drawing out the fight wasn’t to stroke his own ego, but rather to use the audience of the nobles of King’s Landing to publically accuse Tywin and to try to get some sort of confession out of the Mountain. He wanted Tywin just as much as he wanted the Mountain, and he was using the fight as a platform to set up his next move. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/289 "2014-06-05T12:19:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > He didn’t really showboat. Showboating is saying “look at me, look how great I am” - his reason for drawing out the fight wasn’t to stroke his own ego, but rather to use the audience of the nobles of King’s Landing to publically accuse Tywin and to try to get some sort of confession out of the Mountain. He wanted Tywin just as much as he wanted the Mountain, and he was using the fight as a platform to set up his next move. It wasn’t just drawing out the fight to get the confession; there was also the spinning around he was doing before they even started. But I’m not saying he showed off too much or anything. I’m trying to argue _against_ the point that others were making (mostly on the first two pages) that anyone who shows off, or is too confident, inevitably gets their ass handed to them, so it was obvious that Oberyn was going to lose. I don’t think either this observation or this conclusion is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/290 "2014-06-05T13:10:13Z")
Tyrion definitely meant something to Oberyn even if his primary goal was an open confession. Tommen greeted Tyrion warmly when Tyrion returned to King’s Landing at the start of season 2 so they do have a good relationship for whatever that will be worth (not much I suspect). Tywin had Oberyn sister and children killed because they needed to kill all Taergaryn blood to keep the throne ( Daney is Exhibit A that this is true). Aside: I just discovered my phone’s spell check apparently already had all of these GoT names preprogrammed into it which I find amusing. ---
**Author:** ![macster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e79b87/32.png) [@macster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/macster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/291 "2014-06-05T14:12:32Z")
Did I just not pay enough attention or whatever happened to Margaery Tyrell? I don’t think I saw her? (Although the trauma from that thing that happened to Oberyn’s head might cloud my memory) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/292 "2014-06-05T14:26:55Z")
> [@macster](#): > > Did I just not pay enough attention or whatever happened to Margaery Tyrell? I don’t think I saw her? (Although the trauma from that thing that happened to Oberyn’s head might cloud my memory) I don’t think we’ve seen her since Tommen’s coronation, when she had a little chat with Cersei. So she’s just had a few episodes off. Also not appearing this week: Brienne & Pod, Bran & Hodor, Stannis & Melisandre. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/293 "2014-06-05T14:41:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It wasn’t just drawing out the fight to get the confession; there was also the spinning around he was doing before they even started. I think this is more for the sake of the viewer. We haven’t seen him fight previous to this other than in the brothel in the first episode and that didn’t really display too many skills. Jaime comments on this in the conversation in the cell before the fight. I think we see him doing his twirls so that the audience can believe that he knows what he’s doing, that he can fight, and that he has a chance. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/294 "2014-06-05T15:18:11Z")
WTF! I have most liked 5 characters most in this series and now they are all dead… i cannot win :mad: Eddard Stark Rob Stark Kal Drogo Jaqn H’Gar The Red Viper My luck is so bad I feel I should “love up” Tarley in hopes he is next on the chopping block! 😉 In reality my hope now is that newly legitimized Ramsey Bolton was hint that Jon Snow can one day avenge his family! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/295 "2014-06-05T15:22:25Z")
Jaqen H’ghar isn’t dead. He changed his face and we may or may not see him again, but I’m sure we’ll see more of the Faceless Men. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/296 "2014-06-05T15:25:09Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > WTF! > > I have most liked 5 characters most in this series and now they are all dead… i cannot win :mad: > > Eddard Stark > Rob Stark > Kal Drogo > Jaqn H’Gar > The Red Viper > > My luck is so bad I feel I should “love up” Tarley in hopes he is next on the chopping block! 😉 > > In reality my hope now is that newly legitimized Ramsey Bolton was hint that Jon Snow can one day avenge his family! There’s no indiciation Jaqen (as we know him) died. We last saw him giving a coin to Arya along with instructions how to use it before walking off. ---
**Author:** ![chargerrich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chargerrich/32/5399_2.png) [@chargerrich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chargerrich)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/297 "2014-06-05T15:30:51Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > There’s no indiciation Jaqen (as we know him) died. We last saw him giving a coin to Arya along with instructions how to use it before walking off. True but he instructed Arya to repeat the words “Jaqn H’Gar is dead” and then “became” someone else, so he will most assuredly be a different character and actor… boo! I liked his style. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/298 "2014-06-05T15:32:43Z")
> [@chargerrich](#): > > True but he instructed Arya to repeat the words “Jaqn H’Gar is dead” and then “became” someone else, so he will most assuredly be a different character and actor… boo! I liked his style. He told her to repeat the words “Valar morghulis” and told her Jaqen is dead. But yes, if we see him again he’ll be someone else, as another actor took over the role at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/299 "2014-06-05T16:34:01Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Tywin had Oberyn sister and children killed because they needed to kill all Taergaryn blood to keep the throne ( Daney is Exhibit A that this is true). What the Mountain did is what most of the men fighting for Robert would have done. Either kill them or hand them in so someone else could kill them. It’s what happens when one royal family replaces another. Maybe Ned would have let her escape but he would have been betraying Robert. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/300 "2014-06-05T16:40:35Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > What the Mountain did is what most of the men fighting for Robert would have done. Either kill them or hand them in so someone else could kill them. It’s what happens when one royal family replaces another. Maybe Ned would have let her escape but he would have been betraying Robert. She didn’t have to be killed as her claim to the throne was by injection only. Her kids, on the other hand, were shit out of luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=16)