# Game of Thrones 4.08 "The Mountain and the Viper" 6/1/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809 "2014-06-02T03:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/321 "2014-06-07T02:39:22Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Oberyn had no interest in avenging wrongs, defending the weak, or stepping up for Tyrion because it was the right thing to do. Well, his monologue in Tyrion’s cell seemed to be indicating that justice for the little guy (I guess pun intended…) was on his mind as well. He didn’t have to say all that nice stuff about Tyrion and how little Tyrion was no monster, “just a baby,” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/322 "2014-06-07T05:20:21Z")
Oberyn was intelligent, well spoken, enlightened, highly skillful, and beautiful. Sort of an inverse to peoples concept of Tyrion. His talk with Tyrion was an insight to this but was I suppose a foreshadowing as well. That this magnificent example of humanity should take up Tyrions cause gave us all hope for good to conquer evil. Then of course Oberyn showed his weakness for revenge and paid the price. I hope the writers wrote him like that on purpose. I also am EFFING dying for the next episode. Usually I can wait although I am looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/323 "2014-06-07T14:34:02Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > Still a nephew, just two different ways. Seems to me, when a brother and sister play hide the sausage, the product is genetically very similar to that of their brothers and sisters, much closer than cousins. I can’t think of the child as a nephew of our caged neo-Buddhist philosopher. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/324 "2014-06-07T22:12:11Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > It’s been overshadowed by the fight scene, but I really enjoyed the scene with Sansa lying for Little Finger. I especially liked the subtle reaction of the old lady when Sansa talked about doing what she was expected to do. You could tell that the lady remembered a time when she was married off to someone or was somehow used as a bargaining chip. This absolutely gave Sansa a lot of sympathy in her eyes. > > My previous prediction about Sansa learning how to lie and manipulate (the way Arya is learning how to kill) appears to be coming true. She lied by telling the truth! She knew she was a terrible liar so she told the truth and only lied by omission. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/325 "2014-06-08T03:13:50Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > It’s been overshadowed by the fight scene, but I really enjoyed the scene with Sansa lying for Little Finger. I especially liked the subtle reaction of the old lady when Sansa talked about doing what she was expected to do. You could tell that the lady remembered a time when she was married off to someone or was somehow used as a bargaining chip. This absolutely gave Sansa a lot of sympathy in her eyes… I wonder what her back story is. Presumably the committee interrogating Littlefinger is made of up the Vale’s most prominent bannermen; is she dowager lady regent like Lysa was or a lady in her own right? Even heiresses in Westeros get forced into arranged marriages (& her husbands get their lands & titles _jure uxoris_), but there’s always widowhood to look forward too. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > She lied by telling the truth! She knew she was a terrible liar so she told the truth and only lied by omission. She didn’t just omit stuff; she actively lied about how Littlefinger proclaimed that _Lysa_ was the only woman he ever loved and how he begged to get away from the Mood Door before she _threw herself_ in. Also that kiss wasn’t as innocent as she made it seem. Granted she was mostly telling the truth; that’s what made the lie part so convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/326 "2014-06-08T03:16:48Z")
Yes, there were at least three major lies in her speech. It’s true that her account was otherwise true, but I think any good liar will tell you that’s the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/327 "2014-06-08T11:17:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Rhagear Targaryen was: > -The Mad King’s Son and heir, Danaerys and Viserys’s much-older brother > -According to Ser Barristan, “the finest man I ever met” (or something very close to that). > -Married to Elia Martell, with two (?) children > -Blamed by Robert for kidnapping Ned’s sister, who Robert loved (Robert and Ned visited her tomb in the crypt under Winterfell) > -Killed by Robert during the rebellion > > Definitely a mysterious and interesting figure. I think he is believed to have raped and/or killed Ned’s sister as well as kidnapping her, it seemed to be the main reason why Robert hated him so much and the who Targaryen family by proxy (and wanted to kill Danaerys and Viserys’s so much at the start, clashing with Ned over him not wanting to kill a child). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/328 "2014-06-08T13:39:47Z")
I think that last part was just because of his fear that Daenerys and her son would represent a credible claim to the throne. Robert was foolish in many ways and a moral coward but he didn’t harbor a murderous hatred of Daenerys because of what her brother might have done to Lyanna when she was literally in the womb. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/329 "2014-06-08T16:21:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think that last part was just because of his fear that Daenerys and her son would represent a credible claim to the throne. Robert was foolish in many ways and a moral coward but he didn’t harbor a murderous hatred of Daenerys because of what her brother might have done to Lyanna when she was literally in the womb. Re watch [this short scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rlflp7s66s), which takes place so early in the show that by the time you have a better idea of who the people involved are and how they are connected you’ve completely forgotten it. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/330 "2014-06-09T00:14:12Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > … > > She didn’t just omit stuff; she actively lied about how Littlefinger proclaimed that _Lysa_ was the only woman he ever loved and how he begged to get away from the Mood Door before she _threw herself_ in. Also that kiss wasn’t as innocent as she made it seem. Granted she was mostly telling the truth; that’s what made the lie part so convincing. To be honest, I sometimes miss lines because of everyone’s accents and when she gets really weepy it’s even harder. So she did say a couple things I didn’t understand, but she did tell mostly the truth, she’s learning. But didn’t Littlefinger tell Lysa those things at a different time? If so then it wasn’t a total lie either. ---
**Author:** ![macster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e79b87/32.png) [@macster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/macster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/331 "2014-06-10T13:51:45Z")
How are you guys feeling about that last episode? Despite the giants and their mammoth and all the nice fighting and swinging of giant pendulum-things I was a bit disappointed. It really was epic, but I was just so excited about all the other storylines that I’m a bit bummed about seeing them all crammed into one episode next week. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/332 "2014-06-10T14:07:58Z")
> [@macster](#): > > How are you guys feeling about that last episode? Despite the giants and their mammoth and all the nice fighting and swinging of giant pendulum-things I was a bit disappointed. It really was epic, but I was just so excited about all the other storylines that I’m a bit bummed about seeing them all crammed into one episode next week. I think you want this thread: [episode 9 GOT season 4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=725511) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/333 "2014-06-10T14:09:04Z")
> [@macster](#): > > How are you guys feeling about that last episode? Despite the giants and their mammoth and all the nice fighting and swinging of giant pendulum-things I was a bit disappointed. It really was epic, but I was just so excited about all the other storylines that I’m a bit bummed about seeing them all crammed into one episode next week. SPOILER ALERT!!! If you haven’t read the previous 7 pages of this thread, DON’T READ THIS POST! SPOILER SPACE There are differing opinions on this episode. Some liked it and others feel exactly as you do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=16)