# Game of Thrones 4.08 "The Mountain and the Viper" 6/1/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809 "2014-06-02T03:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/81 "2014-06-02T16:55:53Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The king, in fact, is called “the king of the seven kingdoms”, amongst other titles. _Lord_ of the seven kingdoms, which acknowledges that these regions used to be independent kingdoms. The rulers of the seven kingdoms are called lords, and during the war, Robb and Balon wanted to put things back to the way they used to be. [The Game of Thrones wiki lists the kingdoms.](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Kingdoms) ---
**Author:** ![RainGrowsBrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@RainGrowsBrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainGrowsBrite)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/82 "2014-06-02T17:00:50Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Besides, he can always kill her later. No way Littlefinger hears that Arya Stark is alive and his immediate reaction is “well, that makes things MORE chaotic, and that’s bad for me, better just kill her reflexively”. > To anyone who ever says that anything on this show is “predictable”, here’s a challenge… we have threads for each episode. All you have to do is post in THIS week’s thread what you think will happen in NEXT week’s episode, without watching the “next week on”. If you are right more often than you are wrong, then and only then can you claim that the show is predictable. > > So, for any non-book-readers… what will Tyrion’s fate be? What will happen at Castle Black? What will happen with Arya and the Hound? Anyone? > (I think there’s a difference between something being predictable ahead of time and something being predictable at some point partway through… for instance, once Oberyn had the Mountain down and kept monologuing, at THAT point I think it was somewhat predictable that he was going to pay the price for his overconfidence… but saying “hey, 57 minutes into the hour-long episode I had a pretty good idea what would happen in the remaining 3 minutes” is a pretty far cry from “this show is so predictable”.) This. ^^ All of this. ^^ And as far as predictions?.. I’m hoping that Tyrion still lands up North with the Nights Watch. Or really, somehow lands with either the Wildings or Dany’s army to help bring down the Lannisters in the future. The ultimate revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/83 "2014-06-02T17:12:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So, for any non-book-readers… what will Tyrion’s fate be? What will happen at Castle Black? What will happen with Arya and the Hound? Anyone? An attack\* right before the axe falls on Tyrion. In the chaos, Jamie helps Tyrion escape. Tyrion is to be smuggled to Dorn. He’s escorted by Auberyn’s grieving paramour–they are sailing out of the harbor when out of the fog appears a blockade of blacksailed ships. The banner on the center ship stars to flutter revealing \*\* - If the attack is by a dragon–\*\* the banner is the Targayrean one. _If the attack is some sort of other fire magic–_\* the banner is Stannis’. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/84 "2014-06-02T17:17:39Z")
I’m going to miss the Red Viper. Poor Jorah. But change was inevitable. I enjoyed Tyrion’s prison rambling. For a moment I thought they were talking about the cousin that Jamie killed. I guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/85 "2014-06-02T17:18:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > _Lord_ of the seven kingdoms, which acknowledges that these regions used to be independent kingdoms. The rulers of the seven kingdoms are called lords, and during the war, Robb and Balon wanted to put things back to the way they used to be. [The Game of Thrones wiki lists the kingdoms.](http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Seven_Kingdoms) “Lord of the Seven Kingdoms,” meaning not literally seven, count them, kingdoms, each of which is ruled by a king, but rather the nine-territory region that comprises the geographical unit known as the “Seven Kingdoms.” ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/86 "2014-06-02T17:25:20Z")
> [@RainGrowsBrite](#): > > This. ^^ All of this. ^^ > > And as far as predictions?.. I’m hoping that Tyrion still lands up North with the Nights Watch. Or really, somehow lands with either the Wildings or Dany’s army to help bring down the Lannisters in the future. The ultimate revenge. I dunno. I want Tyrion to live, but at this point, I think he’d rather die than continue to be Tywin’s pawn. He recognized that him being sent to The Wall was exactly what Tywin wanted, so I can easily see him resisting any further manipulation by Tywin to suspend his death sentence, unless it results in an “innocent” verdict, a sincere apology, and a nice meal. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/87 "2014-06-02T17:25:44Z")
One little subtle thing I liked, during Tyrion’s discussion of the various “-cides,” Jaime brought up cousin killing. I wonder if any of the Lannisters know that he killed their cousin attempting to escape. Also, didn’t someone in Dany’s group already know that Jorah was working for Robert originally? I seem to remember him talking about it at one point. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/88 "2014-06-02T17:26:08Z")
I still think Margaery is going to have a role to play here, perhaps by convincing Tommen to commute the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/89 "2014-06-02T17:32:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I still think Margaery is going to have a role to play here, perhaps by convincing Tommen to commute the sentence. I like that thought, but I have a couple issues with it: [ol] [li]Tommen officially recused himself, ostensibly due to conflict of interest, but clearly because Tywin told him to. He could probably deliver a royal pardon, but I think Tywin would have to be the one to commute the sentence. Unless Tywin already has plans to save Tyrion, I don’t see him allowing Tommen to give a pardon.[/li][li]It would not be in keeping with GRRM’s style. Tyrion is in a situation where most people would die, and unfortunately, that suggests that he **is** going to die. A last-minute deus ex machina doesn’t seem likely to me.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/90 "2014-06-02T17:39:52Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Curious to see what’s in store for next weeks Episode 8. Seems like every season the penultimate episode contains the seasons most shocking or memorable occurance. Season 1 had Ned losing his head, season two had the battle at blackwater bay, season 3 had the red wedding. It’s going to be hard to top this weeks episode only 1 week later. I fear that Tywin might die. First because it will ruffle things up, Tywin is maybe too much in control. Second because it might save Tyrion somehow. And third because he is my favorite character. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/91 "2014-06-02T17:49:27Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I like that thought, but I have a couple issues with it: > > [ol] > > [li]Tommen officially recused himself, ostensibly due to conflict of interest, but clearly because Tywin told him to. He could probably deliver a royal pardon, but I think Tywin would have to be the one to commute the sentence. Unless Tywin already has plans to save Tyrion, I don’t see him allowing Tommen to give a pardon.[/li] > [li]It would not be in keeping with GRRM’s style. Tyrion is in a situation where most people would die, and unfortunately, that suggests that he **is** going to die. A last-minute deus ex machina doesn’t seem likely to me.[/li] > [/ol] Well he recused himself from the trial, but as Joffrey had shown, he can change the sentence. Ned originally to the wall, gets the chop, Tyrion for the chop, could be commuted to the wall, specially if Jaime gets insistent. But that’s not what’s going to happen Declan ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/92 "2014-06-02T17:50:09Z")
Predictions? I have no book/spoiler knowledge, but you mark my words: Tyrion will not be executed. Tyrion will escape. I would bet the farm on this. The two characters I am _certain_ will survive, if not forever, for a long time yet: Tyrion and Jon Snow. I’m almost as sure that we’ll be seeing Arya grow up and that Dany will be around for at least the next few seasons. I’d say 100% certain of Tyrion and Jon surviving, 95% sure about Arya and Dany. In fact, I said this last year, maybe even the year before, but I can’t be bothered searching back to find it. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/93 "2014-06-02T17:52:49Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Well he recused himself from the trial, but as Joffrey had shown, he can change the sentence. Ned originally to the wall, gets the chop, Tyrion for the chop, could be commuted to the wall, specially if Jaime gets insistent. > > But that’s not what’s going to happen > > Declan Fair enough, Tommen certainly _could_ change the sentence, but from what we’ve seen, he will do exactly what Tywin tells him to do and nothing else. Joffrey was a loose cannon who was drunk with power, Tommen is so far just a proxy for Tywin. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/94 "2014-06-02T17:53:08Z")
Every week I look forward to what esoteric minutiae the loveable scamps at The Dope will get adorably nitpicky about. This “what does 7 Kingdoms mean” is no where near as entertaining as “is Dany literally part dragon” but it will do. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/95 "2014-06-02T17:54:19Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Every week I look forward to what esoteric minutiae the loveable scamps at The Dope will get adorably nitpicky about. This “what does 7 Kingdoms mean” is no where near as entertaining as “is Dany literally part dragon” but it will do. But where do they grow the potatoes?! We have to know! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/96 "2014-06-02T17:54:32Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Tommen officially recused himself, ostensibly due to conflict of interest, but clearly because Tywin told him to. He could probably deliver a royal pardon, but I think Tywin would have to be the one to commute the sentence. Unless Tywin already has plans to save Tyrion, I don’t see him allowing Tommen to give a pardon. Tommen recused himself from the trial, but the trial is over. He’s the king and the king can do what he wants- that’s why a wise man once said it’s good to be the king. And I can imagine that he would want to do something to make Margaery happy. She seemed uncomfortable with Tyrion getting framed and we saw her working to bond with Tommen for a reason. For that matter it would also be a fun way to revisit Tywin’s conversation with Tommen- the one where he said wise kings listen to their counselors. > [@](#): > > It would not be in keeping with GRRM’s style. Tyrion is in a situation where most people would die, and unfortunately, that suggests that he **is** going to die. A last-minute deus ex machina doesn’t seem likely to me. Lots of Game of Thrones characters have survived circumstances where most people would die. Everybody named Stark, for instance, plus Jon Snow, Sam, Gilly, Tyrion… list goes on. If everybody died where a normal person would die, it’d be a pretty boring story. Personally I don’t think they’re done with Tyrion, and it seems to me they laid some groundwork for this. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/97 "2014-06-02T18:02:35Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > The two characters I am _certain_ will survive, if not forever, for a long time yet: Tyrion and Jon Snow. I’m almost as sure that we’ll be seeing Arya grow up and that Dany will be around for at least the next few seasons. I’d say 100% certain of Tyrion and Jon surviving, 95% sure about Arya and Dany. I absolutely agree, and would put Dany in that 100% range as well. If she dies, what the hell was that entire story line for? I guess Grey Worm could take the dragons and head to Westeros, but that’s…dumb, and not nearly as interesting as the ramifications that would come with a Targaryen flying across Westeros on dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/98 "2014-06-02T18:07:25Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Predictions? > > I have no book/spoiler knowledge, but you mark my words: Tyrion will not be executed. Tyrion will escape. I would bet the farm on this. > > The two characters I am _certain_ will survive, if not forever, for a long time yet: Tyrion and Jon Snow. I’m almost as sure that we’ll be seeing Arya grow up and that Dany will be around for at least the next few seasons. I’d say 100% certain of Tyrion and Jon surviving, 95% sure about Arya and Dany. > > In fact, I said this last year, maybe even the year before, but I can’t be bothered searching back to find it. I agree 100% with this. There are some characters in this show, that you really _can’t_ kill off, because then you lose that entire major plotline and everything that has gone into it. Jon Snow, Daenerys, Tyrion & Arya are the only characters I can think of who the story can’t lose. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/99 "2014-06-02T18:10:04Z")
I can see why you can’t off Jon and Dany, but Tyrion and Arya are only on the list because they are popular. They are not really central to any of the major plots of the story. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/100 "2014-06-02T18:11:00Z")
I can understand that logic for Jon Snow, Daenerys, and _maybe_ Ayra. But I don’t see how it applies to Tyrion. What major plotline would be lost if Tyrion is executed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=6)