# Game of Thrones 4.08 "The Mountain and the Viper" 6/1/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 2, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809 "2014-06-02T03:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/101 "2014-06-02T18:19:17Z")
Really, if Arya finally enters the Vale and joins up with Littlefinger and Sansa, her plot armor is gone. She was protected before because she was mainly on her own and her story couldn’t continue without her. Similarly, if Tyrion does go to the wall, then Jon’s armor would be gone as well, because Tyrion could continue the “Wall” story. I would add Bran to the “protected” list. If he dies, you can’t really continue that story. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/102 "2014-06-02T18:19:57Z")
Consider the prospect of watching even more scenes of Cersei being drunk, Tywin being cold, and Jaime being mopey without the prospect of Tyrion around. It’s been rough sledding at times with him in the dungeon instead of interacting with these people. And yes, granted, if Tyrion gets exiled that situation still exists somewhat, but at least he’d be somewhere else in the show. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/103 "2014-06-02T18:20:23Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I can understand that logic for Jon Snow, Daenerys, and _maybe_ Ayra. But I don’t see how it applies to Tyrion. What major plotline would be lost if Tyrion is executed? Yeah, Tyrion is a different argument. Namely that the author obviously loves the character. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/104 "2014-06-02T18:33:57Z")
I wonder where they’re going with the unsullied guy + Danarey’s assistant love story? With all the intersting plot lines going on this one seemed like a big waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/105 "2014-06-02T18:36:22Z")
They are going in the “we need to show tits and the little blonde doesn’t want to do it anymore” direction. Poor grey worm wishes he was still sullied. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/106 "2014-06-02T18:38:15Z")
> [@RainGrowsBrite](#): > > This. ^^ All of this. ^^ > > And as far as predictions?.. I’m hoping that Tyrion still lands up North with the Nights Watch. Or really, somehow lands with either the Wildings or Dany’s army to help bring down the Lannisters in the future. The ultimate revenge. Tyrion at the Wall would be interesting because I’d like to see him pair up with Jon Snow. Both seem relatively rational about the dangers they are facing. But it seems a bad idea to treat the Wall as a prison colony and dump all the undesirable soldiers there. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/107 "2014-06-02T18:45:28Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I agree 100% with this. There are some characters in this show, that you really _can’t_ kill off, because then you lose that entire major plotline and everything that has gone into it. Jon Snow, Daenerys, Tyrion & Arya are the only characters I can think of who the story can’t lose. Wouldn’t you have said this for Robb & Catelyn too though, before the Red Wedding? Sometimes plotlines come to an end. I think Daenerys is the only one who is truly unkillable. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/108 "2014-06-02T18:47:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But it seems a bad idea to treat the Wall as a prison colony and dump all the undesirable soldiers there. That’s been going on for centuries. It’s why the Night’s Watch has fallen into disrepute and we’re watching it turn into a big problem for Westeros as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/109 "2014-06-02T18:47:21Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > I enjoyed Tyrion’s prison rambling. For a moment I thought they were talking about the cousin that Jamie killed. I guess not. Oh, I’m sure _Jaime_ was. It was just a little throwaway, but I have no doubt he brought it up for that very reason. Little bit of self-flagellation no doubt - wallowing in their own misery is a little pastime that both of the Lannister brothers share. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/110 "2014-06-02T19:03:01Z")
A few items: I have watched this show for four seasons now and only just now noticed the actors’ have the appropriate sigil of their character’s house by their names in the credits. I think the Beetle talk was Tyrion reflecting on his life as one is wont to do when they are pretty sure they would soon be dead. As soon as it was clear Oberyn wasn’t killing the Mountain right away I knew he was doomed. I kept saying, “Just kill him you fool!” I wonder if the Mountain died or just passed out at the end of the fight. I don’t think Sansa’s outfit was meant to be Evil but rather adult. She is finally taking responsibility for her own life. That was a beautiful shot of her coming down the stairs BTW. Like others I was worried the guard would take offense at Arrya laughing but I understood why she did. This is the second time she thought she was arriving to safety only to learn the person who would provide that literally just died. I don’t think Tyrion is going to lose his head (at least not anytime sooon). Someone, most likely Jaimie, is going to spring him and he will find sanctuary in Dorne (no book knowledge, I am just making guesses). Something else obvious that only just occurred to me. The people of Westeros have two foreign threats: the White walkers and Daney and her dragons and ironically Daney’s dragon’s are a pretty good solution to the White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/111 "2014-06-02T19:03:05Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I can see why you can’t off Jon and Dany, but Tyrion and Arya are only on the list because they are popular. They are not really central to any of the major plots of the story. While there are plenty of unseen possible plotlines that could justify killing either of them off, there’s just been so much plot investment in them that it seems incredibly unlikely. We’ve seen Arya escape King’s Landing, escape capture by the Mountain in Harrenhal, connect with that weird Man With No Face guy, escape the Red Wedding, escape that whole weird trial by fire for the Hound - what element of the plot do you see moving forward, or what vacuum do you see being created to form a new plot by killing her off? Too many loose ends there to end it now. As for Tyrion, much of the same applies. The only thing that spells any amount of doom for him is that it would leave Jaime’s hand nearly forced to quit the Kingsguard and take over the family business of managing empty mines (maybe start up a Westeros U-Stor-It?). Tyrion has been built up as one of the brighter minds in Westeros, with curiosity for every aspect of the realm. As a plot device, he’s a friggin’ Swiss Army Knife whose potential has barely been tapped into. There are far more interesting things that can happen with him alive than dead. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/112 "2014-06-02T19:14:50Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Wouldn’t you have said this for Robb & Catelyn too though, before the Red Wedding? Sometimes plotlines come to an end. I would say Robb’s story is essentially the North’s story. He died, but it was picked up by the Boltons (and possible to some extent Rickon if we ever see him again). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/113 "2014-06-02T19:37:37Z")
Pretty good episode. The choreography of the Oberyn/Mountain fight was really good - and the ending appropriately gory. Yeesh. > [@Declan](#): > > Personally I thought it was an analogy for GRRM, the beetles would have been characters… Heheh. Nice. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No, she was laughing at Clegane’s bad luck. She laughed, then she looked at Clegane, then she burst out laughing again. That’s about how I took it, coupled with her realizing the black absurdity of missing out yet again on a place of refuge. Of course, Clegane’s next question of the guard should be, “So who rules here now?” > [@Quimby](#): > > …I don’t think Sansa’s outfit was meant to be Evil but rather adult. She is finally taking responsibility for her own life. That was a beautiful shot of her coming down the stairs BTW… Yes, it was. And did she dye her hair darker? I personally doubt that she and Littlefinger got it on - but she certainly seems to have matured enough to know that that’s what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/114 "2014-06-02T19:45:53Z")
Dies: The Mountain and the Hound Dude who ratted out Sir Jorah Most of the Night’s Watch One of the following; Tywin, Jamie, Cersei Red-head wildling Wildling leader Robin Arynn Lives: Arya, Jon, Sam, Tyrion, Sansa, Littlefinger, Bran, Stannis and crew, Jorah, Dani ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/115 "2014-06-02T19:48:07Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Well, we know that the wine assassination attempt came as a response to King Baratheon learning that she was pregnant, which happened before Viserys’ death, right? It might have been the same episode. The only thing I’m 100% positive on without going back is that she was already pregnant when Viserys died, because him threatening to cut the baby out of her stomach is what immediately led to his death. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Also, didn’t someone in Dany’s group already know that Jorah was working for Robert originally? I seem to remember him talking about it at one point. There was a scene in that town whose name I forget (with the wizards and the fake-rich guy) between Jorah and a random merchant peddler lady who may have been a tarot card reader or something. Somehow it was brought up that Jorah would be betraying Dany if he did something, and she mentioned that he’d already betrayed her once before. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/116 "2014-06-02T19:54:23Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I can understand that logic for Jon Snow, Daenerys, and _maybe_ Ayra. But I don’t see how it applies to Tyrion. What major plotline would be lost if Tyrion is executed? That there are Lannisters with any redeeming qualities whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/117 "2014-06-02T19:58:31Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I would say Robb’s story is essentially the North’s story. He died, but it was picked up by the Boltons (and possible to some extent Rickon if we ever see him again). I just about forgot about Rickon. Where is he now? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/118 "2014-06-02T20:33:56Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I just about forgot about Rickon. Where is he now? He and Wildling-lady-Osha (along with his direwolf) headed off to seek refuge with the Umbers, a family loyal to the Starks. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/119 "2014-06-02T20:34:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > That’s about how I took it, coupled with her realizing the black absurdity of missing out yet again on a place of refuge. Of course, Clegane’s next question of the guard should be, “So who rules here now?” > . Do we know that it wasn’t? And if it is, and the answer is “Lord Paetyr Baelish”, what do you think either The Hound or Arya will do? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809/120 "2014-06-02T21:03:15Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Dies: > > Robin Arynn Nope, certainly not in the next 6-7 episodes. Littlefinger needs him alive, as all his machinations come to an absolutely screeching halt if Robin dies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-08-the-mountain-and-the-viper-6-1-14-no-spoilers/689809.md?page=7)