# Game of Thrones 4.09 "The Watchers on the Wall" 6/8/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 8, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348 "2014-06-08T20:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/121 "2014-06-10T15:16:14Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I’m pretty sure the cannibal wildlings don’t just do it out of necessity. It may have started from necessity, but it seems pretty ingrained into their culture now, and they seem to enjoy it. Giving them a steady supply of burritos isn’t going to stop them from eating people. So prior to raiding south of the wall…these guys would have been eating wildlings, no? ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/122 "2014-06-10T15:27:18Z")
> [@Hallucinex](#): > > So prior to raiding south of the wall…these guys would have been eating wildlings, no? Sure. Like Jon said, Mance gathered hundreds of tribes together that were previously at war with each other. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/123 "2014-06-10T15:28:17Z")
> [@Hallucinex](#): > > So prior to raiding south of the wall…these guys would have been eating wildlings, no? Probably. I assumed that was one of the reasons it was so extraordinary that Mance was able to unite them all. I’m also noticing a parallel between Mance being a lone, former Night’s Watch member uniting the wildlings for a common goal, and Jon Snow also being a lone Night’s Watch member who might end up undoing said union or refocusing it toward a peaceful goal. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/124 "2014-06-10T15:35:19Z")
For anyone who Tivos the show and doesn’t read articles for fear of spoilers: next weeks episode is going to be 66 minutes long. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/125 "2014-06-10T15:40:12Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Some things which struck me as invisible and off screen for this episode… > > 1. Large army, 100 tribes, united by Mance Rayder, coming south. Why? How were they united? Need. > > The Wild Walkers are behind this army driving them south. > > 1. Attack on the wall, was it just a probe? Why it stopped? Well, what happens to the dead? > > They come back alive and attack. So massive attack which fails means massive enemy force on the south side. I think the Watch burn the bodies due to respect, but they could technically dump them on the north side of the wall to fight the wildlings (but eventually they’d have to fight them themselves). Only people killed by the walkers or their minions rise from the dead. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/126 "2014-06-10T15:50:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Only people killed by the walkers or their minions rise from the dead. I don’t think so, when Igritte was captured she told the night’s watch men to burn the bodies of the other wildings or they would be coming back. When the mutineers were killed by Jon and the other brothers they also burned every body. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/127 "2014-06-10T15:51:21Z")
I assumed it was a precaution in case the Walkers show up later. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/128 "2014-06-10T16:08:39Z")
> [@The\_Fornicator](#): > > I kind of assumed Jon Snow would either lead or jointly lead the Wildlings south to battle the Lannisters. Interesting idea, but at present Jon is still a loyal brother of the Night’s Watch. Plus I don’t see the Wildlings giving much of a damn about the Lannisters or King’s Landing. …though I’d _love_ to see the Wildling horde descend on the Boltons and the Freys. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/129 "2014-06-10T19:59:12Z")
Nerdist took on the supersonic giant’s arrow for those of you who are obsessing about it. [http://www.nerdist.com/2014/06/game-of-thrones-giants-fire-nearly-supersonic-arrows/](http://www.nerdist.com/2014/06/game-of-thrones-giants-fire-nearly-supersonic-arrows/) There’s math in the article so I quickly lost interest. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/130 "2014-06-10T21:18:55Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Interesting idea, but at present Jon is still a loyal brother of the Night’s Watch. Plus I don’t see the Wildlings giving much of a damn about the Lannisters or King’s Landing. > > …though I’d _love_ to see the Wildling horde descend on the Boltons and the Freys. That was one theory that I had. Jon would allow the Free Folk through the gate in exchange for Manse using his army to man the wall. Jon would end up as a sort of “King of the North” I also still think Jon is actually Robert’s son, but that seems to be going nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/131 "2014-06-10T21:29:51Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > That was one theory that I had. Jon would allow the Free Folk through the gate in exchange for Manse using his army to man the wall. Jon would end up as a sort of “King of the North” Which makes Ygritte’s death (and everyone else’s) that much more tragic. I love it though. It would make for an interesting power shift and opens up all sorts of storylines for the north v Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/132 "2014-06-10T21:32:47Z")
Manse can’t really give orders, and the free folk don’t want to be anywhere near the Wall. They want to go south and get away from the White Walkers. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/133 "2014-06-10T21:50:20Z")
Well, I’m not saying it’s plausible, but the free folk want to be safe from the White Walkers, not necessarily away from them. If I were them, and was offered the wall and all its infrastructure to make a stand against the white walkers, I’d seriously consider it. Standing and fighting from a well fortified position is in some ways preferable to running and running and running and then running some more while an otherwise unstoppable foe sacks the entire continent. Not that the free folk care about the current inhabitants of the continent, more along the lines of if nobody makes a stand there won’t be anywhere left to run to. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/134 "2014-06-11T00:08:21Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I also still think Jon is actually Robert’s son, but that seems to be going nowhere. Well, if you can think back all the way to the first episode, I believe Ned Stark said something to Jon along the lines of one of these days I must tell you about your mother. Of course, that day never came. Will we ever get an answer to that one? Who can say - but it might be enlightening. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/135 "2014-06-11T00:50:10Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I don’t think so, when Igritte was captured she told the night’s watch men to burn the bodies of the other wildings or they would be coming back. When the mutineers were killed by Jon and the other brothers they also burned every body. Wights are created by White Walkers, (otherwise why wouldn’t every dead body in Westeros come back?) The corpse doesn’t have to be fresh though. So a White Walker might reanimate a three week old corpse and it would look all fucked up. > [@pancakes3](#): > > > [@Push You Down View Post](#): > > > > That was one theory that I had. Jon would allow the Free Folk through the gate in exchange for Manse using his army to man the wall. Jon would end up as a sort of “King of the North” > > Which makes Ygritte’s death (and everyone else’s) that much more tragic. I love it though. It would make for an interesting power shift and opens up all sorts of storylines for the north v Bolton. Well there is a lot of long-standing animosity between those north of the Wall and those South of it. And I don’t think Manse and his 100 squabbling tribes are looking to be de-facto Crows. Also, I have a little trouble viewing Ygritte’s death as “tragic”. I mean was it just me, but did she come across as a bit OUT OF HER FOOKIN MIND?!! I mean even Ollie the Potato Kid gave Jon a “your welcome for saving you from crazy town” nod when he shot her with his bow & arrow. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/136 "2014-06-11T00:57:28Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Was I the only one who wondered how Ghost would know who were the bad guys to rip to shreds and who were the good guys to leave alone? Because Ghost would recognize the smell of the Night Watchmen he’s been living with for the past couple of years. Although I expected Ghost to do more than just grab the first Wildling he found and just sit there eating him. Did they forget to feed him or something? And why wasn’t someone like “We’re under attack!! Someone let Robert’s giant-ass war wolf loose!!” > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > They had some warning that Mance’s army was coming, so why didn’t they send ravens to King’s Landing and the other castles requesting backup? I thought they did. Didn’t Missandre tell Stannis Baratheon the war was in the North and weren’t they on their way up there like last season? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/137 "2014-06-11T01:07:23Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Well, if you can think back all the way to the first episode, I believe Ned Stark said something to Jon along the lines of one of these days I must tell you about your mother. Of course, that day never came. > > Will we ever get an answer to that one? Who can say - but it might be enlightening. I suspect that Ned was the last person alive who knew the answer. > [@msmith537](#): > > Well there is a lot of long-standing animosity between those north of the Wall and those South of it. And I don’t think Manse and his 100 squabbling tribes are looking to be de-facto Crows. > > Also, I have a little trouble viewing Ygritte’s death as “tragic”. I mean was it just me, but did she come across as a bit OUT OF HER FOOKIN MIND?!! I mean even Ollie the Potato Kid gave Jon a “your welcome for saving you from crazy town” nod when he shot her with his bow & arrow. Yeah didn’t she or one of her compatriots lecture Jon about how foolish it was to work for a living when you could just kill people and take what you wanted? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/138 "2014-06-11T01:45:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I suspect that Ned was the last person alive who knew the answer. Probably true, although it’s possible that Uncle Benjen might know. Brothers often talk about things they don’t talk about with anyone else. On the other hand, I’m not sure we’ll ever see Benjen again. So, what do we all hope to see resolved for the finale? I think there are three storylines that require some resolution: (1) They must let us know Tyrion’s fate. Is he executed? Does he escape? If he escapes, we don’t need to know right away where he ends up, but we do need to know if he’ll be around for the next season. (2) They need to update us on Sansa and Arya. Do they finally reunite? Or does something strange occur to prevent the reunion? It would be cruel to get them that close together and then make us wait for a new season to see them meet. (3) What happens between Jon Snow and Mance? (Assuming, of course, that Jon even lives long enough to see Mance face to face.) Maybe they take him prisoner, rough him up for some information, and next season we see him chained up in the freshly-captured Castle Black. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/139 "2014-06-11T02:36:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I suspect that Ned was the last person alive who knew the answer. > [@BlackKnight](#): > > Probably true, although it’s possible that Uncle Benjen might know. Wait, you guys are confusing me. Jon _ **is** _ Ned’s b_st_rd son, is he not? So how would Ned not know about Jon’s mother? (Okay, there may have been questions about who the dad was, if she was that kind of girl; even so Ned accepted Jon as his own and certainly was acquainted with her at the very least, and the way he speaks of her to Jon implies that there was something special about her he’d like Jon to know.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348/140 "2014-06-11T02:47:21Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Wait, you guys are confusing me. […] how would Ned not know about Jon’s mother? I’m confused by your confusion. They’re saying that Ned definitely knows who Jon’s mother is. They’re saying that Ned’s dead, so maybe the secret died with him unless maybe Ned told Ned’s brother. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-09-the-watchers-on-the-wall-6-8-14-no-spoilers/690348.md?page=8)