# Game of Thrones 4.10 "The Children" 6/15/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819 "2014-06-15T14:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/261 "2014-06-17T16:48:28Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I love the Danaerys story line, in part because of this. She’s been stomping through Essos as Moses/Jesus/Abraham Lincoln/Mother of Dragons, and harsh reality is smacking her in the face in the form of the Law of Unintended Consequences. She’s learning to rule, on the fly. I think she’s more John Brown than Abraham Lincoln. But yeah, I like that she’s idealism rubbing up against practicality. I think she’ll get it. She’s just a kid, really. And of the generation born during Robert’s Rebellion, she’s doing pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/262 "2014-06-17T16:53:34Z")
**Moderator’s Note** For those who are curious at my absence at the start of the thread and my apparent unwillingness to act, I apologize. I was in Denmark on holiday over the weekend and didn’t check in because my phone provider’s data cap over there ran to $10 for 20Mb. I would have removed the post if I had been there in time. Now it’s a moot point. My apologies. - Gukumatz ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/263 "2014-06-17T17:02:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, the show presents it as being a merciful act in the view of the Hound, who is mot a reliable narrator, being that his experience has given him an extreme view of life. > > That doesn’t require us to believe that that’s what Arya believes is merciful. The show doesn’t ask is to surrender our sense if morality or what is right so that we can agree with the characters. > > The Hound doesn’t give his speech about mercy to tell us that WE should agree that this this mercy, but to show us something about him. In the real world special knives were carried specifically to give mercy to mortally wounded people. From: [Misericorde (weapon) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misericorde_(weapon)) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > A misericorde (/ˌmɪzərɪˈkɔrd/ or /-zɛrɪ-/) was a long, narrow knife, used in medieval times to deliver the death stroke (the mercy stroke, hence the name of the blade, derived from the Latin misericordia, “act of mercy”) to a seriously wounded knight. The blade was thin enough so that it could strike through the gaps between armour plates.[1] If real world people on battlefields thought they were a good idea, I’m okay with deferring to them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/264 "2014-06-17T17:07:11Z")
Then you should also be okay with deferring to Arya’s decision. She’s the one in that battlefield. Also, your own cite doesn’t say this was a universal practice. ItAnd it also says that they were used offensively. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/265 "2014-06-17T17:09:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Whether this is so or not, beating up a poor farmer and stealing his only money is a pretty rotten thing to do. If he had stayed on to work and protect the farm as the farmer offered, the farmer and his daughter would probably survive as long as he was there. Certainly. But was it rotten enough to mercilessly let him lie and suffer as he begs to be killed? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/266 "2014-06-17T17:20:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Then you should also be okay with deferring to Arya’s decision. She’s the one in that battlefield. > > Also, your own cite doesn’t say this was a universal practice. ItAnd it also says that they were used offensively. Of course it wasn’t universal. But seriously think about it. You’ve been stabbed through the stomach with a slow bleeder. You’ll never get better, and you’ll die, in that field from sepsis, dehydration, or wild dogs. Maybe three our four days from now. There are no ambulances. No one is going to drag you to their home, mop your brow and hold your hand. You’re going to lay, where you are, with burning pain until your body can’t fight to keep you alive any more. Or, you can feel a pinch, some warmth and then lose consciousness in a few seconds, and die a couple minutes after that. Being against a mercy killing in that situation is horribly cruel. Which, I think, is why Arya did it. That was her method of crossing him off her list. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/267 "2014-06-17T17:26:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I am very interested to hear your solution. Sounds like she has the right idea, if its indentured servitude. A virtual slave with a fixed duration. But is she merely postponing the idea of at will labor. Declan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/268 "2014-06-17T17:26:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, they did. They were horrible people. But it wasn’t self-defense and he wasn’t ordered to do it. The Hound provoked the fight because he didn’t like them. I still don’t think it was because he didn’t like them (though that might have made the decision easier). Letting them live could have been far more dangerous than killing them, considering who they work for. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/269 "2014-06-17T17:29:04Z")
That’s all from Clegane’s point of view. You can’t necessarily extrapolate Arya’s POV from that. No matter how badly someone else wants to die, I don’t think I could use a knife to finish him off. Now that’s not exactly the perspective that Arya is working from, but there’s plenty of ground between those two positions. Maybe it’s cruelty, but maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s just. Maybe it has to do with emerge role if killing and death that is developing in Arya’s viewpoint. Who gets to be killed? When is killing justified? It’s not obvious to me that she does what she does as a matter of being “cold.” I seed. If it’s as simple as saying that she wishes he suffer, then that’s the opposite of cold–that’s vengeful. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/270 "2014-06-17T17:52:28Z")
It’s worth noting that The Hound violated guest right. That farmer sheltered and fed him and in return The Hound assaulted and robbed him. Mance Rayder also offered Jon food and shelter, and was skeptical that Jon would violate the custom for an assassination attempt. Going back to The Hound, he also robbed and intended to murder that innocent pork merchant last season. The Hound is a really tragic figure. He’s known nothing but violence his whole life, and he recognizes the hypocrisy and brutality of the world he lives in. As a result he’s a bitter, rage filled, unhappy man. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/271 "2014-06-17T18:22:04Z")
Something tells me we haven’t seen the last of the Hound. There’s a lot of parallelism in the show (Theon/Jaime, Jon Snow/Ramsay Snow etc), and that episode ended with the clegane brothers kept alive with no closure. Or maybe I just want to see the Hound fight the Mountain far too bad… ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/272 "2014-06-17T18:36:43Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > The Hound is a really tragic figure. He’s known nothing but violence his whole life, and he recognizes the hypocrisy and brutality of the world he lives in. I agree. He had a glimmer of something honorable and noble in his soul - but only a glimmer, and it was never dominant. If he hadn’t grown up with a sadistic psychopath as a brother, or if he had grown up in a world were violence wasn’t the most effective means for a guy like him to get ahead in life, he may have turned out very different. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/273 "2014-06-17T18:57:55Z")
And in the end when Brienne asked “who’s going to protect her, you?” he said yes. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/274 "2014-06-17T19:13:38Z")
Would it have been okay for Tyrion to kill his father if he were a Half-Dragon Potato? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/275 "2014-06-17T19:14:42Z")
Um, what? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/276 "2014-06-17T19:21:24Z")
As I said very early in this thread, Arya may have killed the Hound out of mercy (or not. I’m not convinced she’s so cold that she could easily kill a person she’s grown close to for whatever reason) if he had not went on and on about what a huge dick he was. He thought he was making her angry enough to kill him but making someone angry at you is not the way to go about asking for mercy. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/277 "2014-06-17T19:23:25Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > Would it have been okay for Tyrion to kill his father if he were a Half-Dragon Potato? Only if the arrow could lift him across the room. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/278 "2014-06-17T19:23:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Um, what? Are you new to these threads? I was being silly and referring to some off the wall previous discussions about half-dragons and potatoes. But I guess whether Tyrion was justified in killing his father or Arya was justified in not killing the Hound are not quite as crazy off the wall arguments as those previous ones but I still think they’ll be going on for several pages. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/279 "2014-06-17T19:25:19Z")
We better be careful not to fill this discussion thread with discussion about the show. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/280 "2014-06-17T19:26:51Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > And in the end when Brienne asked “who’s going to protect her, you?” he said yes. I don’t remember him actually saying “yes”(he probably did) but that was certainly a big moment. The Hound mentally was on a redemption arc. I think he saw in Arya someone to respect and love and who was worthy of his protection… she wasn’t a “cunt” like everyone else he’s dealt with. Arya did not reciprocate. She would not forgive his sins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=15)