# Game of Thrones 4.10 "The Children" 6/15/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819 "2014-06-15T14:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/341 "2014-06-19T00:42:03Z")
Yes, what **Bozuit** and **Bone** said. I haven’t read the books yet, so have no idea whether posts that refer to the author and writing style are spoilering anything. And I shouldn’t have to wonder. The point of these non-spoiler threads is to talk about the HBO series as an independent and for-television-written series. Making any book references, whether to GRRM or anyone else, makes no sense. Book writing and screenplay writing are only distantly related. ---
**Author:** ![Meloy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58f4c7/32.png) [@Meloy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meloy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/342 "2014-06-19T06:09:49Z")
Not being able to reference Martin at all is stupid. His name is in the credits and it’s common for fans to know who is a driving force behind the scenes even if they’re not a series creator. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/343 "2014-06-19T06:14:37Z")
A small moment I appreciated: After sending the Hound tumbling down a hill, Brienne starts calling for Arya. The camera pans up to a rock formation, and we don’t notice anything unusual until suddenly Arya moves, stands up and walks off. I think it was shot this way deliberately, to reveal Arya as a character who can blend in to her surroundings, and be for all practical purposes invisible - a handy talent for someone not large or strong enough yet to prevail by force. One hopes, if she winds up training with the Faceless bunch in Bravos, she uses her stealth for good and not for evil. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/344 "2014-06-19T11:54:22Z")
> [@Meloy](#): > > Not being able to reference Martin at all is stupid. His name is in the credits and it’s common for fans to know who is a driving force behind the scenes even if they’re not a series creator. No, we must treat the show as if a film crew has been magically transported to the actual world of “Game of Thrones”, and this is a “The Office”-like documentary. Except that doesn’t work, because the film crew got involved in that one. We must treat this as if it’s “Planet Earth”, but without the David Attenborough voiceover. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/345 "2014-06-19T12:03:34Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake, it’s not that hard. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/346 "2014-06-19T12:27:10Z")
Yeah it’s not that hard. I’m one of the biggest sticklers for the spoiler rules, but I don’t think that a general reference to Martin and the world he created is a reference to the books. He is a creator of the TV series. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/347 "2014-06-19T13:15:19Z")
As I pointed out, **Sherrerd** was also needlessly referring to the title of the book series rather than the actual TV series. You have to read it all to know there’s not a spoiler there. **Meloy’s** and **Munch’s** posts were pure straw man - I haven’t seen anyone seriously claim that any references to Martin should be excluded. But if your post is full of references to an author _and_ a book series he’s writing, it’s reasonable to assume the post is about those books. As I said, it’s not a big deal and no harm was done by **Sherrerd’s** post, but this whole thing is easily avoidable. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/348 "2014-06-19T13:20:49Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > **Munch’s** posts were pure straw man Um…whoosh. Though as absurd as the discussions and defense of the “no books” rule gets in here, I can see the confusion. Poe’s Law, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/349 "2014-06-19T13:34:32Z")
If you were being ironic, my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/350 "2014-06-19T15:36:27Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > The camera pans up to a rock formation, and we don’t notice anything unusual until suddenly Arya moves, stands up and walks off. > I think it was shot this way deliberately, to reveal Arya as a character who can blend in to her surroundings, and be for all practical purposes invisible - a handy talent for someone not large or strong enough yet to prevail by force. > . Hmm, I thought she was basically hiding behind a rock. Maybe it was just me but I saw her plain as day leaning up and lying still against the rock. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/351 "2014-06-19T16:00:44Z")
Game of Thrones TBT pics (Throwback Thursdays) > **[17 'Game of Thrones' #TBT Photos Worthy of the Nostalgia Throne](https://mashable.com/archive/game-of-thrones-tbt)** > > 17 'Game of Thrones' #TBT Photos Worthy of the Nostalgia Throne Olenna wasn’t kidding when she was boasting about her bygone sexual prime. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/352 "2014-06-19T16:50:50Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Game of Thrones TBT pics (Throwback Thursdays) > > [17 'Game of Thrones' #TBT Photos Worthy of the Nostalgia Throne | Mashable](http://mashable.com/2014/06/12/game-of-thrones-tbt/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-main-link) > > Olenna wasn’t kidding when she was boasting about her bygone sexual prime. You must be too young to remember Mrs Peel in her leather jumpsuit. I’ll be in my bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/353 "2014-06-19T18:54:09Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Hmm, I thought she was basically hiding behind a rock. Maybe it was just me but I saw her plain as day leaning up and lying still against the rock. Your TV might be better than mine - when I watched, until she moved she blended right in. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/354 "2014-06-19T19:28:54Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Your TV might be better than mine - when I watched, until she moved she blended right in. I, too, saw her immediately. You might try adjusting your brightness and/or contrast. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/355 "2014-06-19T19:32:59Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > As I pointed out, **Sherrerd** was also needlessly referring to the title of the book series rather than the actual TV series. I can’t work out why you think that this makes sense. I haven’t read the books. My post did not refer to anything that happens in the books, _because I don’t know what happens in the books_. “Needlessly referring to the title of the book series”…what does that mean? How does referring to the fact that the TV series is not an original work from the imaginations of the show runners, spoil anything? You really need to answer that question if you want us to believe that simply typing the word “Song” violates the no-spoiler rule. > [@Meloy](#): > > Not being able to reference Martin at all is stupid. His name is in the credits and it’s common for fans to know who is a driving force behind the scenes even if they’re not a series creator. Yes. As mentioned above, there’s no conceivable way that spoilers are conveyed to a post’s readers, simply by typing “Martin” or “Song.” Calls for eliminating the typing of “Song” and “Martin” do not evince intelligence. The point of “no spoilers,” surely, is to avoid posting spoilers…isn’t it? Or is it, instead, intended to be some sort of ritualistic prohibition on the typing of certain words, regardless of whether the words convey any information contained in the as-yet unfilmed books? I suppose that ritual has its place–but surely that place is not The Straight Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/356 "2014-06-19T19:35:25Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Your TV might be better than mine - when I watched, until she moved she blended right in. That was my experience, too (and I agree that it was a clever set-up by the director). (I guess there are some advantages to having a less-fancy tv set…;)) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/357 "2014-06-19T19:41:50Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > …I can not imagine the men at the bloody gate not sending word to the Erie that someone claiming to be Arya Stark was at the door. I guess Littlefinger will investigate and find Brienne and the Pod… I thought that, too. The chief guard should’ve said something like, “Wait here while I check with his lordship.” He’s got all those archers on the ravine’s heights to make sure they sit tight. If Littlefinger ever finds out that Arya Stark was there and was allowed to just walk away, he will not be a happy camper. > [@Maserschmidt](#): > > …I kind of wished they had not burned one of the bodies, so that Stannis could see for himself what was going on. Yes! It would’ve been a great scene if one corpse wasn’t burned, but was secured atop a pile of wood and tinder, and kept under observation until it went all violent and ice-zombie. Then you could burn it. Stannis and his top dudes could see all that and then really know what Jon Snow was talking about. > [@Quimby](#): > > …Looks like the Tyrells will be running things soon. Good for them. They seem the most decent of all the big families we have met. Even more decent than the Starks? > [@Munch](#): > > No. The weirwood trees are the ones that people who worship the old gods pray to (typically people in the north, like the Starks). We’ve seen them at nearly every major city, including the Wall. Jon Snow took his oath at one (it was outside the Wall), we’ve seen on at King’s Landing, and at Winterfell. Robb Stark was also married at a weirwood tree, wasn’t he? > [@LibrarySpy](#): > > …Even Brienne and Arya meeting was pretty cool. I loved how Arya was amazed to see a female knight. And them bonding over their fathers… As Brienne says, she’s not a knight. Westeros doesn’t seem to have a title for such a person - she’s not a “ser.” > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > Stannis’s real objective is to save the world from the White Walkers, who are the enemies of the fire religion that the Red Witch claims he is the messiah of… I disagree. His real objective is to be King of Westeros. Destroying the White Walkers is something he has to do to secure his realm. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Something that has gone unremarked was the conversation between Jon Snow and Mance Rayder about Mag the Mighty and Grenn, which I thought was a lovely little moment in a very crowded episode. Yes. I liked that Rayder toasted May and then Grenn, and Jon, in reply, reversed them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/358 "2014-06-19T19:56:14Z")
We generally leave these threads to **Gukumatz** , but please take the argument about spoilers somewhere else. It doesn’t belong in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/359 "2014-06-19T20:07:01Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Calls for eliminating the typing of “Song” and “Martin” do not evince intelligence. The point of “no spoilers,” surely, is to avoid posting spoilers…isn’t it? Or is it, instead, intended to be some sort of ritualistic prohibition on the typing of certain words, regardless of whether the words convey any information contained in the as-yet unfilmed books? > > I suppose that ritual has its place–but surely that place is not The Straight Dope. The point of the “act as if the books don’t exist” rule is to prevent this sort of hijack. The season one threads were probably half arguments about what was and what wasn’t allowed to be talked about, so we adopted a “fuck it, no mention of the books at all” stance and things went much smoother, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/360 "2014-06-19T20:15:36Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > …[Margaery] may suffer from beautiful girl syndrome, but she showed kindness and loyalty to Renly, even though she was just a convenience match for her brother’s sake, and her own power’s sake. Remember they were the “good guys.” Like feeding the poor, she used her kindness to serve her own ends, and that’s still better than choosing evil cunning, like Cersei or Melissandre… She was also kind to Sansa, although partly as a means of intelligence-gathering. > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Although Stannis offered to name Renly his heir unless and until he had a son, although he has a daughter already. I wonder if this means that women’s inheritance rights are more up in the air than men’s, or if it’s just the prerogative of any lord to disinherit at will. This seems to be the rule in Westeros: [Primogeniture - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primogeniture#Male-preference_cognatic_primogeniture) > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > [Tywin] was certainly referring to the rumor but that isn’t necessarily an announcement that he believes in it. This is obviously a man engaging in doublethink, probably to maintain his own peace of mind. > [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > …Deep down Tywin knows the truth about Jaime and Cersei, but even if Maury Povich was waving the results of Joffrey’s paternity test right in his face Tywin would never admit it out loud. Quite so. If Charles Dance gets an Emmy for playing Tywin (and I think he should), they should show this scene. He is so clearly reluctant to admit the awful truth of what Cersei is telling him, but can think of no way to rebut it. Here is a strong, decisive man utterly flummoxed. > [@Declan](#): > > Sounds like [Dany] has the right idea, if its indentured servitude. A virtual slave with a fixed duration. But is she merely postponing the idea of at will labor… I thought that was an interesting scene - the queen as lawgiver. She’s probably going to have to place some limits on those contracts other than their duration alone. > [@Wile\_E](#): > > Would it have been okay for Tyrion to kill his father if he were a Half-Dragon Potato? > [@Biggirl](#): > > Only if the arrow could lift him across the room. I wonder if a Balrog’s wings could do the job just as well…? > [@Wile\_E](#): > > I think Arya not giving the Hound the mercy-killing he wanted was her way of crossing him off her list. He was asking to be killed so she did the opposite because the idea of getting revenge on someone is to do something to them they don’t want you to do. A mercy-killing would have been just that, mercy, and she was still not willing to give him that or forgive him. I don’t think this necessarily makes her a psycho. Agreed, but she has mixed motives - she’s not granting him mercy, but neither is she actively killing him. Letting him suffer is her least bad option under the circumstances. There is a tiny, tiny chance that he might survive and, notwithstanding her oft-cited list of people who need killin’, she is purposefully choosing not to be his murderer. As to Shae… her true nature as (a) unloving, self-interested and deceptive whore, (b) longtime agent of Tywin or (c) genuine lover of Tyrion (until spurned) is, I think, purposefully ambiguous and essentially unknowable. There is enough data to support any of those views. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=19)