# Game of Thrones 4.10 "The Children" 6/15/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819 "2014-06-15T14:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/101 "2014-06-16T15:33:52Z")
> [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](#): > > Holy fuckshit, that Brienne/Hound battle was amazing! Gwendolyn Christie acted the hell out of it, too - at the end when she screams/bellows and beats the everloving shit out of him, she very convincingly betrays a mixture of rage and mortal terror. Epic! For me that duel was the tensest moment of the episode, just ahead of “they’re not promising Tyrion his freedom just to kill him, are they?” In a way the fight was sort of the George R.R. Martin outlook in miniature: it starts with an awesome-looking battle between two knights and ends with one fighter beating the other’s brains in with a rock. Brutal stuff- and yet it was upstaged by what came right after. I’d been wondering throughout this season how Arya would react if the Hound were in distress and the answer turned out to be “like a fucking sociopath.” I guess that shouldn’t be a surprise, but she couldn’t have been any colder about it. I don’t know what to make of the Shae thing, but I don’t think Tywin put her up to it. I think he put too much effort into trying to stop Tyrion from keeping women around and too much was made of Cersei discovering her identity. One of the things we’ve seen over and over in this show is that sometimes women need to attach themselves to powerful men to survive. Shae did that with Tyrion - not that she didn’t care about him, but she was far better off after she met him - and when he dismissed her, she found someone else. What she called Tywin, by the way, was “my lion,” and that was the same thing she called Tyrion. So that was extra heartbreaking. I’m glad Tyrion’s alive, but I have no idea what’s next for him. (I assume they’re going to Essos because my theory is that Varys is working for/with some power in Essos, but what do I know?) Maybe Jaime and Cersei will take over House Lannister together. > [@crucible](#): > > Perhaps Mance didn’t have more than a few hundred men left in his camp. Perhaps the whole “100000” wildings was a fabrication? Stannis took them by surprise and from a vulnerable side, so they had no defenses. > [@](#): > > He also sent 400 men to climb the wall…where are they? …they’re climbing the wall. He said they would be over by nightfall and they would attack Castle Black on his signal. So at the time of Jon’s sitdown and Stannis’ assault, they were still climbing and hadn’t been told to strike. > [@Declan](#): > > If he is going to be king, then he has to act like one. Right. > [@](#): > > He gets the area north of the wall secured, Jon Snow is the last known heir to winterfell to live, so you can add the northmen to his eventual march on KL. He didn’t know Jon was there, and I’m not sure Jon is really an heir. Even if he does, there’s the small matter of the Boltons. > [@tim-n-va](#): > > I’ve been wrong about the show many times before but I thought the Shae/Tyrion relationship was real but she didn’t take being sent away very well. Right. I don’t find that part very complicated: Tyrion broke her fucking heart and was very cruel to her. He knows, and we know, that he had good reasons for doing so. But she didn’t know any of that. What she knew was that they were in love, then he married Sansa, wouldn’t touch her, tried to get rid of her, and then said some awful stuff to her to make her go away. > [@crucible](#): > > That her sister is still in the aerie? Did she and the Hound ever determine who was in charge? No, they don’t know that. And really, I don’t know why they didn’t ask what was going on and why word wasn’t sent to the Aerie. That didn’t make much sense to me. > [@](#): > > Brienne and Paddric know, though, right? I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > Will they continue on to find Sansa and Littleflinger? I think they’ll be looking for Arya. I don’t know what they’ll do next- but we haven’t heard from the Brotherhood lately. > [@](#): > > I still like Dani. She’s dutifully trying like heck to do the right thing. I do, too. It was inevitable that the dragons were going to kill somebody and she reacted the right way, but between the new world she’s trying to create and her dragons - Ser Jorah was right about them, by the way - she’s looking at a lot of tough choices. > [@Declan](#): > > If he is going to be king, then he has to act like one. Right. > [@](#): > > He gets the area north of the wall secured, Jon Snow is the last known heir to winterfell to live, so you can add the northmen to his eventual march on KL. He didn’t know Jon was there, and I’m not sure Jon is really an heir. Even if he does, there’s the small matter of the Boltons. > [@tim-n-va](#): > > I’ve been wrong about the show many times before but I thought the Shae/Tyrion relationship was real but she didn’t take being sent away very well. Right. I don’t find that part very complicated: Tyrion broke her fucking heart and was very cruel to her. He knows, and we know, that he had good reasons for doing so. But she didn’t know any of that. What she knew was that they were in love, then he married Sansa, wouldn’t touch her, tried to get rid of her, and then said some awful stuff to her to make her go away. > [@crucible](#): > > That her sister is still in the aerie? Did she and the Hound ever determine who was in charge? No, they don’t know that. And really, I don’t know why they didn’t ask what was going on and why word wasn’t sent to the Aerie. That didn’t make much sense to me. > [@](#): > > Brienne and Paddric know, though, right? I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > Will they continue on to find Sansa and Littleflinger? I think they’ll be looking for Arya. I don’t know what they’ll do next- but we haven’t heard from the Brotherhood lately. > [@](#): > > I still like Dani. She’s dutifully trying like heck to do the right thing. I do, too. It was inevitable that the dragons were going to kill somebody. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/102 "2014-06-16T15:34:14Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Very Ray Harryhausenesqe Seriously. Against the Children of the Hydra’s Teeth there is no defense. Rise up, ye dead, slain of the hydra. Skeleton fighters were a whole new thing, right? Not just a variation on White Walkers & undead wraiths? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/103 "2014-06-16T15:36:49Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > That her sister is still in the aerie? “Still”? They never knew she was there. Brienne and Paddric know, though, right? [/quote] No - Littlefinger shuttled her to the Aerie in secret. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/104 "2014-06-16T15:37:48Z")
Something else I forgot to mention in my post, so it looks like the Mountain is about to become something like Frankenstein’s monster. Too bad the Hound never had a chance to kill his brother. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/105 "2014-06-16T15:38:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Seriously. Against the Children of the Hydra’s Teeth there is no defense. Rise up, ye dead, slain of the hydra. > > Skeleton fighters were a whole new thing, right? Not just a variation on White Walkers & undead wraiths? Thought they were just really old wraiths. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/106 "2014-06-16T15:42:58Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > No matter how you look at it, though, Stannis’ attack north of the wall really seems to me to reveal a bunch of structual flaws in the whole show. Why would Stannis bother, first of all, to use up a bunch of capital to conquer the wildings? He doesn’t care about the Wildlings. He frankly doesn’t care about the Wall all that much. He cares about Melisandre and her advice. She said it was important for him to go to The Wall, so he did. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/107 "2014-06-16T15:47:29Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Also, Arya’s not going to Bravos. She’s going to the Wall. She asked the Captain to take her there and he said “No” he’s going home to Bravos. That’s when she then magic coined him to get him to take her. That’s what I think happened too. The “previously on” sequence said that she could give the coin and say the words to any person from Bravos and he would do a favour for her. So she used it on the Captain so he would take her to the wall. If she just wanted to go to Bravos, it sounded like he would have given her a ride there anyway, even without the coin. Why waste it on that? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/108 "2014-06-16T15:49:44Z")
> [@infinitii](#): > > That’s what I think happened too. The “previously on” sequence said that she could give the coin and say the words to any person from Bravos and he would do a favour for her. So she used it on the Captain so he would take her to the wall. > > If she just wanted to go to Bravos, it sounded like he would have given her a ride there anyway, even without the coin. Why waste it on that? Before she pulled the coin, he wasn’t going to take her anywhere–despite her pleas of ability to pay, not needing a cabin, etc – and regardless, he was going to Braavos, not north. So my take on it was that the iron coin got her on the ship to Braavos, but wasn’t enough to get him to sail in a completely different direction. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/109 "2014-06-16T16:02:51Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I have no knowledge of the books. When my son and I were discussing the finale before it happened, he thought it would be cool if Bran could warg his way into a Dragon. Now, there are two dragons locked up, but one still free and Bran was told he would fly. Hmm…😉 Well that obi-wan type that was in the tree with Bran, did say he would never walk again, but he would fly. Most of us are just assuming that means Ravens:) Declan ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/110 "2014-06-16T16:05:29Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Most of us are just assuming that means Ravens:) We are? I assume dragon as well. I’m not sure how he’d fly a raven. He can warg into one, but that’s not new. I’d assume that the harness designed by Tyrion will certainly come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/111 "2014-06-16T16:05:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > But they are not supposed to be, remember the dragons from the original Targaryen conquest were ridden into battle. That implies domestication and large degrees of control. Either that, or they had a different view on incidental casuatlies. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/112 "2014-06-16T16:06:00Z")
I’m suprised Tyrion was so quick to be locked inside a box and be put on a boat by Varys. This was the guy that threw him under a bus during the trial. Perhaps his “I never forget” comment carried more weight than I thought. Tyrion’s escape after killing Tywin pretty much seals his fate as suspect #1 in Tywin’s murder. It would have been quite the plot twist to have him sneak back to his cell locking the door behind him to give him the ultimate alibi. On the other hand Cersi would still be damned sure to have him executed as originally planned so I guess dodging a second murder charge really wouldn’t make a difference. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/113 "2014-06-16T16:08:13Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > So now that Tyrion and Varys are working together and on their way to Braavos, will they run the Iron Bank in two months or three? Who says they’re on their way to Braavos? From what I remember of the scene, all we know is they got on a ship. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/114 "2014-06-16T16:09:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That was from a time when dragons were better understood and people knew how to domesticate them. I don’t think that’s the case now. I’m going to nitpick your terminology here - can’t quite believe it myself, but many a stupider point has been nitpicked in these threads before now. Potatoes, anyone? 🙂 Domestication refers to a population, not an individual, and requires human intervention in the form of selective breeding over generations, which changes the genotype and resulting phenotype. We have no evidence the dragons are domesticated, although interestingly, remember Arya visiting the skeletons of the dragons which got smaller and smaller? Reduced size is a common trait of domestic species, as is smaller/fewer teeth and horns. Hmm. Taming, though, involves altering behaviour to suit human needs. Non-domesticated species may be tamed. So I think we’d be more correct to refer to Dany training or taming the dragons. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/115 "2014-06-16T16:10:38Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Before she pulled the coin, he wasn’t going to take her anywhere–despite her pleas of ability to pay, not needing a cabin, etc – and regardless, he was going to Braavos, not north. > > So my take on it was that the iron coin got her on the ship to Braavos, but wasn’t enough to get him to sail in a completely different direction. She wanted to go to The Wall because it was the last place she could think to go because her half-brother’s there. Where else could she turn? From her perspective, her dad’s dead. Her mom’s dead. All three of her brothers are dead. Her sister may be dead too. The Wall’s all that’s left. But when the guy says he’s Braavosi, suddenly the thought clicks that she has another place to go and there’s nothing left for her in Westeros. She’s going to Braavos. Here’s a question my wife and I were pondering: what did the captain think when she handed him the coin? I think it was payment of sorts. She got the coin as a favor from a Faceless Man and she was cashing it in. The captain knew he could take the coin and use it as his own favor, should the need arise. My wife had a different theory: The captain saw the coin and assumed that Arya _was_ a Faceless Man. You saw that he genuflected. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/116 "2014-06-16T16:11:44Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m suprised Tyrion was so quick to be locked inside a box and be put on a boat by Varys. This was the guy that threw him under a bus during the trial. Perhaps his “I never forget” comment carried more weight than I thought. > Tyrion’s escape after killing Tywin pretty much seals his fate as suspect #1 in Tywin’s murder. It would have been quite the plot twist to have him sneak back to his cell locking the door behind him to give him the ultimate alibi. On the other hand Cersi would still be damned sure to have him executed as originally planned so I guess dodging a second murder charge really wouldn’t make a difference. I think at that point Tyrion was so emotionally traumatized he wasn’t in a condition to make any challenging decisions at all. Hence, just throw himself on the mercy of the one guy in the castle who might (based on what Jaime said) help him. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/117 "2014-06-16T16:11:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who says they’re on their way to Braavos? From what I remember of the scene, all we know is they got on a ship. I thought they said they were going to Essos and Braavos is the capital of Essos isn’t it? Or is Essos a separate city? Or did I mishear everything? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/118 "2014-06-16T16:12:26Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I’m suprised Tyrion was so quick to be locked inside a box and be put on a boat by Varys. This was the guy that threw him under a bus during the trial. Perhaps his “I never forget” comment carried more weight than I thought. I think he figured that, much like Bronn, Varys is his ally, but he’s not going to put his own life ahead of Tyrion’s. Still I am super pumped to see the Tyrion and Varys (and maybe Arya if they all go to Braavos) show next year. There was a distinct lack of Varys this season. Also, with all the talk of Peter Dinklage’s performance these last few episodes, I think Rory McCann deserves a nod as well for this season. Especially his dying scene and the one from a couple episodes ago where he talked about his brother. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/119 "2014-06-16T16:13:37Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I thought they said they were going to Essos and Braavos is the capital of Essos isn’t it? Or is Essos a separate city? Or did I mishear everything? Essos is the other continent. Braavos is one of the cities there. I don’t think there’s really any “kingdom” in Essos, which is why you hear them referred to as “The Free Cities” every now and then. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/120 "2014-06-16T16:14:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Who says they’re on their way to Braavos? From what I remember of the scene, all we know is they got on a ship. Pretty sure Jamie told him they were going to Pentos actually. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=7)