# Game of Thrones 4.10 "The Children" 6/15/14 \[no spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819 "2014-06-15T14:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/161 "2014-06-16T19:58:05Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Some of us reading this thread think that GRRM is one of the greatest writers ever born, whose characters are perfectly realized, and not in any way cardboard stand-ins for his own personal resentments and insecurities. Others of us reading this thread tend to suspect that maybe his writing will _not_ be seen as Great Literature by future generations. I don’t agree with either. I don’t think Martin is a great writer and I don’t think these books will pass the test of generations. I still think your evaluation of the female characters is based on a superficial approach to the work. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/162 "2014-06-16T20:01:48Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Makes sense, since that is where the one ally of Varys that we have seen is from. (Illiyan?) > > . Illyrio ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/163 "2014-06-16T20:08:28Z")
I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but Robb’s wife was a fine lass. May she RIP. Brienne obviously cares about justice, duty, and loyalty. She’s shown warmth and kindness to Jaime. Margarey may suffer from beautiful girl syndrome, but she showed kindness and loyalty to Renly, even though she was just a convenience match for her brother’s sake, and her own power’s sake. Remember they were the “good guys.” Like feeding the poor, she used her kindness to serve her own ends, and that’s still better than choosing evil cunning, like Cersei or Melissandre. Ygritte is a perfectly normal girl. Has emotions, has smarts, has physical prowess, capable of pity and mercy, capable of sarcasm, capable of violence. What’s not to admire? She was greatly respected by Mance and her peers. Hell, because of all of that, isn’t she a little boring? 🙂 Arya’s a dark character, but she’s awesome. How can one judge Dany poorly, when she’d lock up her own children to save the children of others? CERSEI. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/164 "2014-06-16T20:23:35Z")
Margaery sees being queen like a girl today sees being Kim Kardashian, she seems to want popularity and admiration more than power. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/165 "2014-06-16T20:40:48Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Margaery sees being queen like a girl today sees being Kim Kardashian, she seems to want popularity and admiration more than power. Margaery sees popularity and admiration AS power. Which it is when you’re the queen. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/166 "2014-06-16T20:51:57Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Anyone else notice the eye Melissandre was giving Jon during the Crow bonfire? I did. Spoilered for those who don’t even want to see other people’s speculation… And since Melissandre is always on the lookout for royal blood to throw in her fires (it seemed like a “the Force is strong with this one” moment) the thought crossed my mind – completely and utterly original, I have not read this in any books, I swear to The Seven and all gods old and new – Jon’s is going to turn out to be royal, through his mother. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/167 "2014-06-16T20:58:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > He’s a bastard. The (known) heir is Sansa. Sansa and Arya cannot inherit winterfell, it runs through the male line. While we know they are alive, the balance of the westeros does not know that both Bran and the other kid are alive and kicking. Previously they were thought to have burned up in a barn, courtesy of Theon. The only people who are dialed in right now, are the Boltons. Bran is out, since he cant sire anymore and that only leaves Rickon. Jon Snow would be a candidate to inherit, if no known male heirs survived. Course that would take the Nightswatch to be real political about releasing him from his obligations, they are independent, but I dont see them needlessly pissing off a king. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/168 "2014-06-16T21:01:17Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I don’t think anything in the show (before Tyrion tried to send her away) backs that up. Everything we saw indicated that she was truly in love with and devoted to Tyrion. Tywin even threatened Tyrion, more than once, against keeping a whore at King’s Landing. My theory is that Tywin was using reverse psychology and knew if he forbade it, Tyrion would be sure to do it. I think Shae was playing him all along. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/169 "2014-06-16T21:02:46Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Sansa and Arya cannot inherit winterfell, it runs through the male line. I don’t think we have any reason to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/170 "2014-06-16T21:05:05Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I did. > > Spoilered for those who don’t even want to see other people’s speculation… > > And since Melissandre is always on the lookout for royal blood to throw in her fires (it seemed like a “the Force is strong with this one” moment) the thought crossed my mind – completely and utterly original, I have not read this in any books, I swear to The Seven and all gods old and new – Jon’s is going to turn out to be royal, through his mother. That would still make him a bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/171 "2014-06-16T21:09:25Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Sansa and Arya cannot inherit winterfell, it runs through the male line. Their father was a Stark, so they are Starks and can inherit. That’s what descent through the male line means, and I think the Lannisters and Littlefinger both acknowledged that Sansa was the heir. That’s only true if there are no surviving men, but if that happened, she’d be next in line. > [@](#): > > The only people who are dialed in right now, are the Boltons. Right. It’s a might-makes-right world. > [@](#): > > Bran is out, since he cant sire anymore That doesn’t mean he can’t inherit land. And not that I really want to go down that road, but we don’t know this. > [@](#): > > Jon Snow would be a candidate to inherit, if no known male heirs survived. Legally he is not a Stark. Maybe the king could make it happen, but it wouldn’t pass to him automatically even if he were not in the Night’s Watch. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/172 "2014-06-16T21:16:38Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Doesn’t a White Walker have to do something to make the dead walk? How close do the White Walkers have to be? > [@Marley23](#): > > The way they arrange the corpses may have something to do with it, but we really don’t know. But it seems like the Walkers have to be around for it to happen. Hmmm, that’s possible. I do recall the two dead Night Watchman they brought back from beyond the wall in season one, but maybe they somehow had been converted or “infected” before they were brought back. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/173 "2014-06-16T21:21:10Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Sansa and Arya cannot inherit winterfell, it runs through the male line. But they can in a way since Tyrion, before all the shit went down, was saying he would be the Lord of Winterfell by being her husband. So basically the daughter is a link to her father’s holdings. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/174 "2014-06-16T21:24:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Their father was a Stark, so they are Starks and can inherit. That’s what descent through the male line means, and I think the Lannisters and Littlefinger both acknowledged that Sansa was the heir. That’s only true if there are no surviving men, but if that happened, she’d be next in line. Although Stannis offered to name Renly his heir unless and until he had a son, although he has a daughter already. I wonder if this means that women’s inheritance rights are more up in the air than men’s, or if it’s just the prerogative of any lord to disinherit at will. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/175 "2014-06-16T21:28:40Z")
Well, the most disappointing thing about this episode is that Brienne never got to give Arya the new and improved wolf-shaped bread from Hot Pie. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/176 "2014-06-16T21:30:14Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > Although Stannis offered to name Renly his heir unless and until he had a son, although he has a daughter already. I wonder if this means that women’s inheritance rights are more up in the air than men’s, or if it’s just the prerogative of any lord to disinherit at will. Tywin disinherited Jaime earlier, so it seems like anyone can do that. I think Stannis was offering a compromise to try to gain an ally. Also: Stannis is a dick and not exactly father of the year material. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/177 "2014-06-16T21:31:40Z")
It seems that in general, the lords can decide whoever they want to be their heir. Bolton named his bastard an heir. Cersei argued that Tywin should make her an heir. Technically, Tyrion should be the heir to Casterly Rock, and Tywin said fuck no to that. And of course the king can do whatever he wants and name any one person as the new lord. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/178 "2014-06-16T21:32:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Tywin disinherited Jaime earlier, so it seems like anyone can do that. I think Stannis was offering a compromise to try to gain an ally. Also: Stannis is a dick and not exactly father of the year material. Jamie disinherited himself when he joined the Kingsguard. It’s Tyrion that Tywin disinherited. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/179 "2014-06-16T21:35:50Z")
Tywin didn’t disinherit Jamie, Jamie refused to be re-inherited by Tywin. As a member of the kingsguard Jamie was no longer Tywins heir, Tywin was trying to fix that but Jamie refused and the status quo remained. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819/180 "2014-06-16T21:46:03Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > That would still make him a bastard. Which is relevant when discussing inheritance, but not magic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-4-10-the-children-6-15-14-no-spoilers/690819.md?page=10)