# Game of Thrones 5.01 "The Wars to Come" 4/12/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486 "2015-04-12T14:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/181 "2015-04-15T15:40:40Z")
Since this is the most current thread on the show, I felt this might be the best place for other questions from prior seasons. What is the story with Stannis’s daughter? When she’s first introduced, it looked like Stannis’s wife didn’t want him to see her (after returning from the battle for King’s Landing). I couldn’t quite make out what was going on there. I know she has some skin condition. But later he does bring her and the wife along in the surprise attack on the wildlings north of the Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/182 "2015-04-15T15:47:12Z")
Yes, Stannis’s daughter has a skin condition - some kind of reptilian/scaly problem that I think is unique to Westeros. Stannis evidently brought his entire royal household with him - Queen, Princess and top aide (has he named Davos his Hand?) - with him when he came to the Wall. > [@grude](#): > > …Then mentioned again I think the last time by Obeberon last season… > [@Biggirl](#): > > …I thought Oberon was pissed because _his_ sister was raped to death by The Mountain… Nitpick: It’s Oberyn. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/183 "2015-04-15T16:09:42Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Dany’s brother kidnapped and raped Ned’s sister who is dead, this is mentioned in the first season when Robert and Ned visit her grave. Then mentioned again I think the last time by Obeberon last season. A popular theory is Jon is the result of that rape, and Ned lied to protect his nephew. > > I don’t see how it could matter in story, unless it lets him ride one of Dany’s dragons or something. If Jon is a Targaryen by Rhaegar, he’s also Dany’s nephew and the Targaryens intermarry, so he could marry Dany and be king of the Seven Kingdoms if Dany retakes the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/184 "2015-04-15T16:16:47Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes, Stannis’s daughter has a skin condition - some kind of reptilian/scaly problem that I think is unique to Westeros. Stannis evidently brought his entire royal household with him - Queen, Princess and top aide (has he named Davos his Hand?) - with him when he came to the Wall. Davos is hand of King Stannis. I think ever since Stannis declared himself such. I don’t think he has the cool pendant but he refers to himself and is referred to as “hand of the king.” Stannis’ wife has more of an issue with the daughter, than Stannis does. He treats her like…well, a daughter, lacking in utility but still his. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/185 "2015-04-15T16:20:04Z")
In my mind I can’t keep the names Tyrell and Martell straight. Every time I want to refer to Margaery, the word Martell comes out of my mouth—“no, that’s not right! What is the name again?” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/186 "2015-04-15T16:56:30Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Davos is hand of King Stannis. I think ever since Stannis declared himself such. I don’t think he has the cool pendant but he refers to himself and is referred to as “hand of the king.” You know, that just has to be a little hurtful… ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/187 "2015-04-15T17:45:42Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Davos is hand of King Stannis. I think ever since Stannis declared himself such. I don’t think he has the cool pendant but he refers to himself and is referred to as “hand of the king.” He should have a cloak-holder-under-the-chin clasp/brooch with a hand with nubs for fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/188 "2015-04-15T18:13:17Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Ned did not have royal blood. > > EDIT: Actually, on second read I’m pretty sure that’s your point. Apologies. The north was a separate kingdom before the seven kingdoms were united. I think Ned and Robb were direct male descendants from those kings. More important, the North accepted Robb as king. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/189 "2015-04-15T18:20:42Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > If Jon is a Targaryen by Rhaegar, he’s also Dany’s nephew and the Targaryens intermarry, so he could marry Dany and be king of the Seven Kingdoms if Dany retakes the throne. Leaving aside that Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen, members of the Night’s watch don’t marry, it is one of the first things in their vow. Plus I think Dany is currently too happy with the fake Daario to want someone else ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/190 "2015-04-15T18:40:49Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Leaving aside that Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen, members of the Night’s watch don’t marry, it is one of the first things in their vow. Plus I think Dany is currently too happy with the fake Daario to want someone else That’s easy–he secretly dyes his hair and once they defeat the White Walkers, peace will reign and there’s no need for the Night’s Watch. Everyone lives happily ever after. 😃 On second thought, this is _Game of Thrones_ where anyone can die at a moment’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/191 "2015-04-15T18:42:57Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > He should have a cloak-holder-under-the-chin clasp/brooch with a hand with nubs for fingers. He should have _a_ brooch, or he should have _the_ brooch? If Tywin is wearing the official insignia, then Davos isn’t going to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/192 "2015-04-15T18:49:08Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Leaving aside that Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen, members of the Night’s watch don’t marry, it is one of the first things in their vow. Plus I think Dany is currently too happy with the fake Daario to want someone else I think in the best case scenario fantasy world-- once the wight walkers and the lich king or whoever the baby-toucher was (ohhh that sounds bad) are defeated and Dany ascends the throne–the Nightwatch would be disbanded and/or revamped and Jon would be released from his vow. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/193 "2015-04-15T19:10:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > He should have _a_ brooch, or he should have _the_ brooch? If Tywin is wearing the official insignia, then Davos isn’t going to have it. Why would Davos wear Robert’s insignia? He isn’t Robert’s or Joffery’s or Tommy’s Hand. He’s Stannis’ fingerless Hand. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/194 "2015-04-15T19:43:32Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Why would Davos wear Robert’s insignia? He isn’t Robert’s or Joffery’s or Tommy’s Hand. He’s Stannis’ fingerless Hand. Is it Robert’s insignia? Or is it the insignia of the hand of the king? The Targaryens established a long tradition of rule. That suggests the possibility that something like the insignia of the hand of the king might be a unique item. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/195 "2015-04-15T19:47:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Is it Robert’s insignia? Or is it the insignia of the hand of the king? The Targaryens established a long tradition of rule. That suggests the possibility that something like the insignia of the hand of the king might be a unique item. Stannis insists he is king. He says Davos is his hand. Why can’t Davos have an insignia? One can be made for him that is a hand with no fingers. I’m a little confused at why you think he can’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/196 "2015-04-15T19:55:10Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Stannis insists he is king. He says Davos is his hand. Why can’t Davos have an insignia? One can be made for him that is a hand with no fingers. I’m a little confused at why you think he can’t have one. Often monarchical institutions have traditions of unique symbols, that’s all. I’m not saying that that’s necessarily true in this case, but I see no reason to assume that Davos can just tell a jeweler or blacksmith to bang together a hand-looking brooch and that this would be considered the legitimate insignia of the hand of the king. It might be the case that it is expected that he will have to wait until Stannis wins the war and he can get his hands on the actual insignia of the hand off the corpse of whoever was serving as the Lannisters’ hand. I don’t know which one is the case, which is why I posed it as a question. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/197 "2015-04-15T21:24:41Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Anyone notice the Bolton sigil on Winterfell during the opening credits? Is that new? I thought it was just burning last season. I look at last season’s dvds, the Bolton sigil is new and also when we cut away from Winerfell it is no longer smoking. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/198 "2015-04-16T01:27:58Z")
Hey all this talk of the hand has me wondering: Now that Tywin is dead, who is Tommen’s new hand? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/199 "2015-04-16T01:34:38Z")
I don’t think they’ve said anything yet. I think we basically got the morning after the murder. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/200 "2015-04-17T01:30:28Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Who knows how to train a dragon? Wargs, including at least the Stark children and some Wildlings, can enter the minds of and control animals. We’ve seen Bran enter his wolf’s and Hodor’s minds, plus the Wildling that controlled the hawk. Jon and Rob clearly have/had some measure of understanding with their wolves even if they didn’t explicitly “warg” into the wolves’ minds. It seems like some fairly blatant foreshadowing about the possibility of controlling or at least communicating with dragons instead of traditional animal training, particularly when they’re having so much trouble with the dragons right now. It’s possible Dany is a warg or otherwise has some magical connection but just doesn’t really know it yet. It’s also possible she’ll eventually get the help of others to magically control the dragons. It could also just be misdirection since it’s so obvious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=11)