# Game of Thrones 5.01 "The Wars to Come" 4/12/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486 "2015-04-12T14:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/41 "2015-04-13T12:22:03Z")
Hard to imagine anything less shocking in this show than any kind of sex. Sexposition is what keeps the plot moving. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/42 "2015-04-13T12:27:56Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > The only shocking thing was how Daenerys didn’t show her boobs for once, in the most Hollywoodish-fashion possible. > > I guess she wasn’t kidding when she said she was done with nudity. I didn’t know she had said that but assumed she was using her Star Powah when I saw how she used the sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/43 "2015-04-13T12:35:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > > > The gay sex done for shock value. > > Can you expand on this? Is there any way gay sex could be portrayed that you would not consider done “for shock value”? Let’s not sidetrack the thread with a discussion of whether gay sex is shown for shock value. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/44 "2015-04-13T12:37:53Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Let’s not sidetrack the thread with a discussion of whether gay sex is shown for shock value. I think this particular scene can be discussed – I saw it as an insight into Loras and Margaery’s characters. We didn’t know that Loras is essentially flaunting his sexuality, which he believes is widely known, and now we know that Margaery mildly disapproves. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/45 "2015-04-13T12:57:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think this particular scene can be discussed – I saw it as an insight into Loras and Margaery’s characters. We didn’t know that Loras is essentially flaunting his sexuality, which he believes is widely known, and now we know that Margaery mildly disapproves. I don’t think she disapproves of his sexuality per se; just that she thinks it’s risky for them right now. If he were back home in Highgarden I don’t think she would care. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/46 "2015-04-13T12:59:12Z")
Still not used to new Daario, he looks like a sensitive nice guy who gets friend zoned while original Daario gets to bang the girl. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/47 "2015-04-13T13:01:15Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I don’t think she disapproves of his sexuality per se; just that she thinks it’s risky for them right now. If he were back home in Highgarden I don’t think she would care. I agree, and this is what I meant – she disapproves of his flaunting, not his sexuality. She just wants him to be discrete. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/48 "2015-04-13T13:02:27Z")
She’s right too, it ain’t what you know it’s what you can prove. And didn’t Joffrey put a death penalty on gaying at some point? ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/49 "2015-04-13T13:05:04Z")
I did not think Margaery was showing any disapproval of the relationship, rather she was upset about the lack of responsibility with Lora’s behavior of being late and indiscrete. She did say she was hungry a few times. I am not sure what quantifies going over to the dark side for Sansa, she has not hurt anyone and finally begins to show signs of self preservation by siding with Little Finger. Melisandre was the one who sent Stannis forth to the wall after staring into the flames once Davos showed them the crow for help. I am so excited to see Tyrion and Daenarys together. I am happy the show has passed the books I have read, I think the series would have been much more fun if I never read the first few books. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/50 "2015-04-13T13:20:52Z")
I really liked babby Cersei, she was so…Joffreyeesh ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/51 "2015-04-13T13:32:42Z")
I thought it was pretty funny that Brienne and Podrick were (once again?) within sight of Sansa and _still_ haven’t connected. And what’s the “Sparrows” (the religious order that Lancel seems to have joined)? Plus Varys thinks that Daenerys Targaryen is the last best hope of Westeros. I wonder if he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/52 "2015-04-13T13:39:07Z")
I was expecting the reveal that Varys has been working with Illyrio to get Dany back on the throne to be a bigger deal. It’s not exactly a secret - there’s a scene in season 1 where Arya overhears Varys talking to Ilyrio in the dungeons, but I’m not sure the viewers were supposed to pick up on that at the time. So I thought that when they revealed Varys was in her camp, they’d reveal it as more of a shocker, but instead it was very matter of fact. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/53 "2015-04-13T13:42:13Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I was expecting the reveal that Varys has been working with Illyrio to get Dany back on the throne to be a bigger deal. It’s not exactly a secret - there’s a scene in season 1 where Arya overhears Varys talking to Ilyrio in the dungeons, but I’m not sure the viewers were supposed to pick up on that at the time. So I thought that when they revealed Varys was in her camp, they’d reveal it as more of a shocker, but instead it was very matter of fact. I think there had been enough hints in past seasons that Varys has some sort of ulterior motives and scheming that this wouldn’t (and couldn’t) be a “shocker”, especially once he got on the boat with Tyrion at the end of last season. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/54 "2015-04-13T13:49:49Z")
I did not pick up on Varys supporting Daenerys in any way because he did try to poison her. I thought with Tywin’s death Varys was looking for the next best option. Danny is still learning quite a bit, I imagine it’s her progress that has Varys intrested in meeting her. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/55 "2015-04-13T13:52:04Z")
Robert tried to kill her, Varys might be on her side but he couldn’t simply defy a direct order. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/56 "2015-04-13T14:05:20Z")
What reasons would Varys had of supporting her for years before she showed any promise? I fail to see how her early notions of justice would benefit Westeros in any way. I think I am missing whispers from the books? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/57 "2015-04-13T14:06:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Didn’t Hot Pie give it to them at the Inn at the Crossroads? Yep, as they were leaving. It looked much better than his first attempt. My favorite Hot Pie moment: “You CANNOT give up on the gravy!” ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/58 "2015-04-13T14:10:15Z")
> [@Gothic](#): > > What reasons would Varys had of supporting her for years before she showed any promise? I fail to see how her early notions of justice would benefit Westeros in any way. I think I am missing whispers from the books? Originally they were supporting Viserys, it was Illiryo who set him up with an army in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/59 "2015-04-13T14:14:59Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > I really liked babby Cersei, she was so…Joffreyeesh I loved the witch’s prediction of her future: Three children for you. Check. Twenty for the King. No way to really know, but this witch has a pretty good track record so far, so I’ll give this a 50/50. Not going to marry the Prince but will marry the King. Check. Her children will all wear a gold crown and a gold shroud. Two crowns down, one to go. One shroud down, two to go. Queen (check) until a younger more beautiful woman takes her crown. Well that’s coming right on up. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/60 "2015-04-13T14:18:13Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Originally they were supporting Viserys, it was Illiryo who set him up with an army in the first place. Thanks! I also liked the Cersei flashback, it reminded me that Joffrey and Cersei laughed the loudest during the little person jousting match at the wedding reception. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=4)