# Game of Thrones 5.01 "The Wars to Come" 4/12/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486 "2015-04-12T14:37:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/141 "2015-04-14T20:08:26Z")
Remember folks, not comments or spoilers from the books. I’m not _uber_ familiar with the HBO series, so if someone feels this is too much of a spoiler to be left in the thread, report it or PM me and I’ll make an edit. > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > And of course being HBO, instead of Maggie the Frog, we got Maggie The…wellll, hellloooo. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/142 "2015-04-14T20:09:15Z")
Since I’m not sure about the answer to the last question asked, I’ll spoiler this:Soooooo, Ned Stark’s sister was abducted by the Prince Targ and then Ned’s bestie ordered all the Targ babies killed? Was all this discussed in the first season? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/143 "2015-04-14T20:09:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m not clear on Mance’s motivations. He appeared to be prideful (bowing to the king will compromise his pride and basically eliminate his credibility among his people), but then he said "fuck my pride " - it seems like he was trying to say he was motivated by something other than pride or stubbornness, but it’s not clear what that could be. Him bowing to Stannis does seem like the best outcome for his people. How does him going to his death help anyone? It appears to be a case of extreme stubborn pride. He said there was no point in explaining his stance if Jon didn’t understand it. I wondered if it was the writers of the show saying “We’ve no clue why he’s acting this way, really, but anyway he needs to die”. More charitably, love of freedom was probably his motivation. “Liberty or death”, something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/144 "2015-04-14T20:10:48Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Since I’m not sure about the answer to the last question asked, I’ll spoiler this:Soooooo, Ned Stark’s sister was abducted by the Prince Targ and then Ned’s bestie ordered all the Targ babies killed? Was all this discussed in the first season? I think it was pretty much all in the very first episode. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/145 "2015-04-14T20:14:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m not clear on Mance’s motivations. He appeared to be prideful (bowing to the king will compromise his pride and basically eliminate his credibility among his people), but then he said "fuck my pride " - it seems like he was trying to say he was motivated by something other than pride or stubbornness, but it’s not clear what that could be. The point as I understood it was that even casting aside (fucking) his pride, the very act of kneeling would rob him of his authority to tell the wildlings what to do. They wouldn’t respect or follow a kneeler thus Stannis still wouldn’t have gotten what he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/146 "2015-04-14T20:14:48Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Did Ned have siblings? Ned had three siblings: Brandon, Lyanna, and Benjen. The first two are dead. They died at the start of and during Robert’s rebellion. Brandon was engaged to Catelyn Stark (nee Tully) before the Mad King killed him. Ned married her in Brandon’s place. Lyanna was taken away by Rhaegar Targaryen, which started the war. Benjen is Ned’s younger brother and a member of the Night’s Watch. He hasn’t been seen since he went out on a ranging in season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/147 "2015-04-14T20:17:13Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > …I agree, it was badly done. [Dany] could have sat up enough and hugged her legs with the sheet in between. Sure we may have seen some side boob and butt cleavage but it wouldn’t have looked forced. She could also have remarked about feeling chilly and pulled the sheet up more. > **[Modesty Bedsheet - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ModestyBedsheet)** > > A character who is nude in bed uses the bed sheet to cover their private parts. They may be in the morning after a night of passion, or have been undressed and left resting in bed or even simply be sleeping in the buff. The nude character might … ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/148 "2015-04-14T20:19:19Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Ned had three siblings: Brandon, Lyanna, and Benjen. The first two are dead. They died at the start of and during Robert’s rebellion. Brandon was engaged to Catelyn Stark (nee Tully) before the Mad King killed him. Ned married her in Brandon’s place. Lyanna was taken away by Rhaegar Targaryen, which started the war. > > Benjen is Ned’s younger brother and a member of the Night’s Watch. He hasn’t been seen since he went out on a ranging in season 1. D’oh! How could I have forgotten Uncle Benjen and his delectable rice? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/149 "2015-04-14T20:23:08Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Some of the few things re-appeared which annoy me about this otherwise enjoyable series; gay sex and nudity. The nudity really is of the cheap titillating type. The gay sex done for shock value. I don’t think so regarding the second part (gay sex for shock value), not anymore than straight sex for shock value, at least. But I agree that there’s a bit too much sex/nudity for my taste. No issue in itself with sex scenes in a serie, it’s the fact that it’s most often done solely to titillate the watchers that annoys me. I can easily get my sex in a number of ways, I’m not sure why they’re assuming I somehow really really want to see nudity when watching a show. I guess they know their public, but my question then switch to : why do people want so much to see nudity on TV when millions of pictures and movies are available in a click on their computers? I would be perfectly fine with casual nudity if it makes sense in the context, or nudity that has a point (deleted example because I don’t remember if what I had in mind happens during this first episode or…ahem…in a latter episode), but writers seem to always ask themselves : “How can we introduce nudity/sex in this scene?”, which irritates me. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/150 "2015-04-14T20:24:02Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > Since I’m not sure about the answer to the last question asked, I’ll spoiler this:Soooooo, Ned Stark’s sister was abducted by the Prince Targ and then Ned’s bestie ordered all the Targ babies killed? Was all this discussed in the first season? The war goes something like this: [ul] [li]Rhaegar (prince Targ) takes Lyanna (Ned’s sister)[/li][li]Brandon Stark goes to the capital and demands Lyanna back[/li][li]Brandon and Ned’s father are killed by Aerys Targaryen[/li][li]Jon Aryn, Ned, and Robert declare war on the Targaryens[/li][li]Lots of killing[/li][li]Tywin (the Hand of the King) sees the writing on the wall and betrays the King. Jaime kills Aerys. The Mountain kills all the Targaryen children he can find as well as Oberyn’s sister. Viserys and Daenerys Targaryen flee Westeros.[/li][li]Robert is installed as king and marries Cersei[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/151 "2015-04-14T20:25:03Z")
In conclusion, Jon could be of Ned’s blood but not be Ned’s son. He could be saving Benjen from being executed by The Night’s Watch, saving Brandon’s honor (or something equally stupidly noble and Ned-like) or saving his nephew from being murdered by his best friend. Still, if any of the above was the case, he should have told Caitlyn and saved both her and Jon a whole lotta heartache. But now that I’m thinking about this, not telling Caitlyn would also be a good idea because her stiff-necked pride turned everything she touched to shit. Good Lord, everybody in this story is either dumb or a piece of garbage. I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/152 "2015-04-14T20:32:24Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > why do people want so much to see nudity on TV when millions of pictures and movies are available in a click on their computers? Speaking for myself — sex and nudity are always more sexy in a quality mainstream production with good actors, a good story, and good production values. If mainstream dramatic productions were hardcore and explicit sexually, I wouldn’t ever click on stuff that was purely pornographic, because overall those things aren’t good—they look cheap and amateurish, the people aren’t as attractive as real actors, and the acting is laughably bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/153 "2015-04-14T21:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] … why do people want so much to see nudity on TV when millions of pictures and movies are available in a click on their computers?.. [/QUOTE] I think it’s because it’s more satisfying when the nudity is unplanned or unexpected. Kind of like randomly hearing your favorite song on the radio vs. actively playing it on your iPod. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/154 "2015-04-14T21:10:10Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I think we can be pretty sure he wasn’t lactose intolerant. Oh, well done. We salute you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/155 "2015-04-14T21:33:15Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Melisandre seems very interested in royal blood, Ned was never king and she is not a queen. If Jon Snow was their love child then he has no royal blood. It seems more likely that Jon’s mother died in Robert’s Rebellion. The only women we know who died in the Rebellion were Ned’s sister and Oberyn’s sister who was a princess and was killed by the Mountain. It is possible that Jon Snow is Ned and the princess’ son. Then he would have some royal blood. > Davos saved Stannis and his household from starvation, but Stannis still had his fingers cut off. That showed Stannis being rigid. Dragonstone is an important castle that protects the bay and is far away from kings landing. Perfect for someone who is dependable but would look down at Robert’s ways. Jon has kings blood because he is half brother to a king. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/156 "2015-04-14T21:34:25Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Why does everyone here think that Stannis is so rigid and unforgiving? Is that from the books? Because he seems quite even-keeled to me. He certainly believes in duty and rules, but the fact that he freed Davos and effectively allowed Davos to free Gendry tells me that he’s not all-in on Melisandre. He didn’t even punish Davos for letting Gendry get away. Stannis sentenced Davos to die. The only reason Davos wasn’t executed was Melisandre telling him no, Davos was needed for what lies ahead. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/157 "2015-04-14T21:38:34Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > why do people want so much to see nudity on TV when millions of pictures and movies are available in a click on their computers? I suppose I can answer your question this way: I don’t even _understand_ your question. I want to see every attractive (woman) in the world naked. Let’s pick a random example named Mary Sue. If she’s cute, I want to see her naked. Going on the internet and seeing naked pictures of Jane Doe does nothing to satisfy my interest in seeing Mary Sue naked. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/158 "2015-04-14T22:19:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Jon has kings blood because he is half brother to a king. Robb? I don’t think that counts. Surely if Melisandre’s magic cares about royal blood, it take actual royalty. Gendry’s blood worked because his father sat a throne. If putting on a crown and declaring yourself king for a couple weeks is all it takes, then Melsiandre can make all the royal blood she wants with a supply of slaves and a Burger King hat. No, I think the magic knows the difference. If Jon Snow has royal blood, it’s not via Robb Stark. ---
**Author:** ![Magniankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@Magniankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magniankh)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/159 "2015-04-14T22:56:20Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Still not used to new Daario, he looks like a sensitive nice guy who gets friend zoned while original Daario gets to bang the girl. Completely agree with this, the original Daario was _so_ much better. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486/160 "2015-04-14T23:03:31Z")
Forgot to mention earlier, Varys’s remarks to Tyrion were interesting. Sounded like he’d been reading up on Rousseau and Jefferson. A king who cares about his people? A commitment to justice and good governance? Harrumph. A madman _and_ a traitor… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-01-the-wars-to-come-4-12-15-show-discussion/717486.md?page=9)