# Game of Thrones 5.02 "The House of Black and White" 4/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046 "2015-04-19T16:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/21 "2015-04-20T06:44:40Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > …Sansa (and Jon) are the only known Starks. Except Jon isn’t a Stark, he’s a Snow. Perhaps some people are calling Jon “King in the North” now, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/22 "2015-04-20T06:53:21Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Oh, good point. I guess all the Stark children are missing. So I guess it’s hard to rally around the King/Queen in the North if there aren’t any. I wonder if the first Stark kid to pop up would then be considered the monarch by the loyalists. Rickon was headed to the Umbers, IIRC, for safekeeping. So I suppose perhaps they’ll be the ones to rally around him. Sounds like the loyalists would support him/her. I don’t think we know whether the Greatjon is still alive? > [@Shakester](#): > > Except Jon isn’t a Stark, he’s a Snow. > > Perhaps some people are calling Jon “King in the North” now, but I haven’t seen any evidence of it. Hence the parentheses. He’d be fine if Ned ever got around to legitimizing him. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/23 "2015-04-20T11:23:06Z")
3 or 4 episodes down the road, Brienne is going to run into Rickon in an inn, and offer her protection, and he’s going to say “uh, no thanks, I’ve got a pretty good gig here.” Poor Brienne. She’s going to pledge herself to the next noble person she sees. Bronn and Jaime road trip sounds fun. I’m glad Bronn isn’t out of the show, because I love the guy. I feel like his reaction to having the rug pulled out from under him on the Stokeworth marriage wasn’t devastating enough - yes, I know he’s bored of her already, but it’s a huge boon for him and it was just yanked away. And he just sort of said “Eh, oh well” to it. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/24 "2015-04-20T11:24:14Z")
Could Ned have made him legitimate? I thought only kings–or aspiring kings–could do so. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/25 "2015-04-20T11:39:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So far this season has been pretty meh. Not much happening. I presume we’re 20% through the season already, and I have no idea where anything is going. And not in a good way. I agree. The pacing was far too slow. I also get the feeling of digging a hole in the sand at a beach where no matter what, more sand fils in what you just scooped out; they seem to just pile plot point onto plot point. I found myself thoroughly losing interest halfway in. They need to start resolving some of the seemingly endless plot points that get added. I’m quickly losing interest. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/26 "2015-04-20T11:44:37Z")
Roose Bolton legitimized Ramsey, didn’t he? > [@Shakester](#): > > Wheelchair guy = Prince Doran Martell, ruler of Dorne and elder brother of the late Oberyn. It’s Dr. Bashir from Star Trek! > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Is Aemon expected to be a tiebreaker like the US VP? He’s a member of the Night’s Watch. Presumably, he has a vote like everyone else. I think he just hadn’t voted yet, for dramatic reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/27 "2015-04-20T12:00:19Z")
I loved it. It went by too fast. Brienne and Arrya should wrap their sword pommels and grip in some cloth. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/28 "2015-04-20T12:02:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Roose Bolton legitimized Ramsey, didn’t he? Yep, you’re right. I had forgotten that. Ned surely would have “gotten around” to legitimizing Jon Snow had there not been a good reason not to do so. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/29 "2015-04-20T12:03:55Z")
Well, his wife would’ve gouged his eyes out. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/30 "2015-04-20T12:21:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Roose Bolton legitimized Ramsey, didn’t he? From my memory of the scene (it was something like “all of the North will be yours” while they look at sweeping vistas), Roose read a proclamation signed by King Joffrey that Ramsey was legitimized. So I’m sure that Roose arranged it, but it was by order of the King. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/31 "2015-04-20T13:15:19Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Arya is brought to, and eventually enters, the Xavier School for Gifted Murderers. I’ve grabbed this item because I suspect it may help to clarify the bafflement you feel. See, I have no idea what the Xavier School for Gifted Murders is. I saw nothing in the show that would tell me what that building was. All I saw was a series of scenes of Arya, who is an awesome character, riding in a rowboat. She was rowed along canals. She was rowed along calm waters. She was rowed along choppy waters. Finally, she got out at a building with black and white doors. The stuff that happened there was interesting as it happened, no doubt. But I imagine it would be a lot more exciting if one knew that was Xaviers School for Gifted Murderers. This is a well-written show, beautifully produced and well-acted. I’m sure it will get good. But right now there’s no clear cohesion. The main antagonist now is Cersei, and while I do want to see her get a ton of comeuppance, it just isn’t the same as wanting psychopathic Joffrey dead. Danerys was interesting because she was driven to pull together an army to fight an antagonist I cared about. Now she’s bogged down in the politics of some place she’s taken over. It’s interesting, but only about as much as watching someone else play Sim City. Similarly, Tyrion agreeing to go somewhere is exciting? Right now he’s moping and doesn’t himself care much where he’s going or what he’s doing. The other Lannister kids have gotten about as much screen time as Hodor’s dick. I didn’t care about the one that was shipped off to Dorn. I don’t care much about getting her back. It is modestly interesting to wonder how Jamie plans to pull this off, but what is the big picture for this? Why should I care how this subplot plays out? That’s my guess as to your bafflement. Specifically, if you’re already a fan and know where things are going, it might be fun to watch it come together. For me, it lacks coherence and it lacks the strong sense of conflict that has driven everything up to now. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/32 "2015-04-20T13:20:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ve grabbed this item because I suspect it may help to clarify the bafflement you feel. See, I have no idea what the Xavier School for Gifted Murders is. I saw nothing in the show that would tell me what that building was. Never having read the books, it seemed crystal clear to me. The preternaturally skilled assassin Jaquen appears to live there, and based on what he said at the end, that’s where Arya will be taught Jaquen’s secrets to killing. All presented in the show itself. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/33 "2015-04-20T13:35:39Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Stannis is the legit king, so he can grant waivers to their rules if he wants. Stannis is only the legit king if Robert WAS the legit king. But Robert simply killed Rhaegar Targaryen, who was the legit king after his father Aerys Targaryen was killed by the “Kingslayer,” Jamie Lannister. So if Aerys was the legit king, then Rhaegar was his heir, and then after Rhaegar was killed, Rhaegar’s son and heir Viserys Targaryen was the rightful king. After Viserys was killed by melted gold, courtesy of Drogo, then, no more male heirs available, Daenerys Targaryen, the daughter of Rhaegar and sister of Viserys, is the rightful monarch. And even if we agree that Robert was king by right of conquest, then his children are his heirs. Obviously we know that Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella are illegitimate, but we also know Robert has bastard children aplenty. I don’t know if the show has made clear what their legal status is with respect to rights to the throne. For that matter, how does one go about showing, now, that Tommen is illegitimate? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/34 "2015-04-20T13:35:46Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Never having read the books, it seemed crystal clear to me. The preternaturally skilled assassin Jaquen appears to live there, and based on what he said at the end, that’s where Arya will be taught Jaquen’s secrets to killing. All presented in the show itself. His secrets to killing plus the answer to how he is able to change his appearance. Plus I want to know how the heck they ventilate that building. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/35 "2015-04-20T13:41:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > we also know Robert has bastard children aplenty. I don’t know if the show has made clear what their legal status is with respect to rights to the throne. Didn’t we see all of them except Gendry get slaughtered? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/36 "2015-04-20T13:43:25Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Never having read the books, it seemed crystal clear to me. The preternaturally skilled assassin Jaquen appears to live there, and based on what he said at the end, that’s where Arya will be taught Jaquen’s secrets to killing. All presented in the show itself. How was it crystal clear to you that it was Xavier’s School for Gifted Murderers? I must have missed that. And more to the point, it’s interesting to know that at the end. Getting there was a bit like watching Meat Loaf with tits standing on a porch in the rain. It’s interesting if you know he’s waiting to get into Fight Club. Otherwise, it’s mildly intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/37 "2015-04-20T13:47:26Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > His secrets to killing plus the answer to how he is able to change his appearance. Plus I want to know how the heck they ventilate that building. They have a really good HVAC guy. Brienne is starting to get really annoying (again). I agree that the plot is sort of plodding, but I’m really digging the sets, especially after having seen the preview episode that explained the filming in Spain, Croatia and Ireland. The Water Garden scene, filmed in Spain, was surprisingly like the actual place. I guess that’s not such a shocker, but I enjoyed it anyway. Did I miss something, or did we just not see the voting explained further once JS was nominated? I heard the guy talk about which 2 tokens to use for the first 2 nominees, but not for JS. Maybe just edited out… ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/38 "2015-04-20T13:49:23Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > How was it crystal clear to you that it was Xavier’s School for Gifted Murderers? I must have missed that. This might be a whoosh, but that’s a joke (a reference to X-Men, which I haven’t seen, but it’s been internet-inized enough that I recognize it). I’m another who hasn’t read the books, but thought it was clear enough that it’s where Jaquen lives and that Arya was being tested before he let her in to begin her training. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/39 "2015-04-20T13:53:20Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ve grabbed this item because I suspect it may help to clarify the bafflement you feel. See, I have no idea what the Xavier School for Gifted Murders is. I saw nothing in the show that would tell me what that building was. I think you’ve forgotten some stuff you saw. You saw Arya save Jaqen’s life when he was trapped and about to burn. You saw as a result, he promised her three deaths. You saw that when they parted company, he offers to take her to his home of Braavos and learn the art of the assassin, like him. She says she has to find her mother and brother first. He gives her a coin, and tells her that if she changes her mind, to give the coin to anyone from Braavos and say, “Valar Morghulis.” You saw her do just that with the ship’s captain, and he took her to Braavos and rowed her to that building. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/40 "2015-04-20T13:53:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So if Aerys was the legit king, then Rhaegar was his heir, and then after Rhaegar was killed, Rhaegar’s son and heir Viserys Targaryen was the rightful king. After Viserys was killed by melted gold, courtesy of Drogo, then, no more male heirs available, Daenerys Targaryen, the daughter of Rhaegar and sister of Viserys, is the rightful monarch. Viserys and Darnerys are Rhaegar’s younger siblings—Aerys’s children. Rhaegar’s children were killed by Clegane. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=3)