# Game of Thrones 5.02 "The House of Black and White" 4/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046 "2015-04-19T16:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/121 "2015-04-21T12:58:28Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > On rewatch, I remove the objection. The scene wasn’t long enough for him to show his displeasure, and his reaction is very “great, I’m a pawn of noble shits again” Jaime also promised him a better bride and a bigger castle. I don’t think he minds that. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/122 "2015-04-21T13:00:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > You should see the delivery spout that rains boiling oil down on enemy ships as they pass underneath! Aha! Someone else saw that 1961 Sword and Sandal epic _The Colossus of Rhodes_! I saw it as a kid and thought it was cool. It immediately disappeared and, to my knowledge, never appeared on local TV or, more recently, on cable or streaming. I checked a couple of years ago, and it was available on DVD, if you were willing to pay. > **[The Colossus of Rhodes (film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Colossus_of_Rhodes_(film))** > > The Colossus of Rhodes (Italian: Il Colosso di Rodi) is a 1961 Italian sword and sandal film co-written and directed by Sergio Leone. Starring Rory Calhoun, it is a fictional account of the island of Rhodes during its classical period in the late third century BCE before coming under Roman control, using the Colossus of Rhodes as a backdrop for the story of a war hero who becomes involved in two different plots to overthrow a tyrannical king: one by Rhodian patriots and the other by Phoenician ag... For what it’s worth, no contemporary illustration of the Rhodian Colossus shows it bestriding the harbor – that was a medieval imagining, apparently. It certainly \*wasn’t/I] technologically possible in ancient Greece (or Rhodes). The actual Colossus stood completely ashore. It was about the size of the Statue of Liberty and, like it, had spikes around the head (the statue was supposed to be Helios, god of the Sun). It was also basically an internal support with thin sheets of metal (bronze for the Colossus, copper for Liberty) held in place by ribs sticking out from the support. I have little doubt that the Statue of Liberty was consciously based on the real Colossus of Rhodes. As for the statue bestriding the harbor, I suppose you could do it if you had a sufficiently sturdy internal arch or pair of columns leaning against each other for support, but I’d be nervous as hell building it, or sailing under it. The image is compelling, though, and inspired Jonathan Swift to write a scene in _Gulliver’s Travels_ evoking the image. Ray Harryhausen used it with Talos spanning the harbor in his _Jason and the Argonauts_. For an interesting fictionalized read about the building of the Colossus, see if you can find L. Sprague deCamp’s _The Bronze God of Rhodes_. decamp knew his history and his engineering (his book _The Ancient Engineers_ is a classic). Most of the book, as with Ken Follett’s _Pillars of the Earth_, describes the backstory leading up to the construction. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/123 "2015-04-21T15:26:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Jaime also promised him a better bride and a bigger castle. I don’t think he minds that. I totally misread that as “a \*bigger \*\*bride \*and a better castle” which could be the same thing, I guess. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/124 "2015-04-21T15:28:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Jaime also promised him a better bride and a bigger castle. I don’t think he minds that. Why would he take that seriously after they simply took the one he already had away? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/125 "2015-04-21T15:38:36Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Why would he take that seriously after they simply took the one he already had away? Because he sees a promise from Jamie is worth more than a promise from Cersei. And He likes Jaime, and it didn’t seem like he particularly liked Lolys. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/126 "2015-04-21T15:51:47Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Because he sees a promise from Jamie is worth more than a promise from Cersei. And He likes Jaime, and it didn’t seem like he particularly liked Lolys. Jamie can’t make anyone marry anyone else, the King can. That’s why Cersei had the power to break up his engagement, she is the de facto ruler while she has control of Tommen. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/127 "2015-04-21T16:27:19Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Because he sees a promise from Jamie is worth more than a promise from Cersei. And He likes Jaime, and it didn’t seem like he particularly liked Lolys. There’s probably something to be said for Bron actually seeing what he was lined up for as incredibly boring. He’s not a Lord, he’s a sell-sword. You want to plan a wedding or do you want to go somewhere you might get to kill some dudes? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/128 "2015-04-21T16:30:13Z")
Also, Bronn knows where his bread is buttered. He would be wise to do what Lannisters tell him to do, unless he plans on disappearing across the sea or something. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/129 "2015-04-21T16:44:48Z")
I don’t get why Jaime even needs to go to Dorne in the first place. Couldn’t Cersei just send a messenger to Dorne with something like this: “Marriage is off yada yada yada. Please return Myrcella unharmed etc etc. You will be compensated blah blah blah. Signed King Tommen.” ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/130 "2015-04-21T17:06:26Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > I don’t get why Jaime even needs to go to Dorne in the first place. Couldn’t Cersei just send a messenger to Dorne with something like this: “Marriage is off yada yada yada. Please return Myrcella unharmed etc etc. You will be compensated blah blah blah. Signed King Tommen.” Well, firstly because the Lannisters are broke and can’t afford to pay a princess’s ransom. And the kingdom is also broke, having just fought an expensive war and suffered loss of trade, etc. Secondly, what’s to stop the Dornish from saying “Nope, invade us.” Because, as I just said, the Lannisters and the Seven Kingdoms have just finished fighting a hugely expensive and destructive war. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/131 "2015-04-21T17:18:21Z")
> [@Nauplius](#): > > I don’t get why Jaime even needs to go to Dorne in the first place. Couldn’t Cersei just send a messenger to Dorne with something like this: “Marriage is off yada yada yada. Please return Myrcella unharmed etc etc. You will be compensated blah blah blah. Signed King Tommen.” Dorne seems plenty wealthy. A royal hostage is literally priceless. And the Martells are out for blood for slights new and old “Marriage is still on yada yada yada. Not fucking likely etc etc etc. Only blood will pay this debt blah blah blah. Signed Doran “Get Fucked” Martell.” ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/132 "2015-04-21T17:22:20Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > …The actual Colossus stood completely ashore. It was about the size of the Statue of Liberty and, like it, had spikes around the head (the statue was supposed to be Helios, god of the Sun). It was also basically an internal support with thin sheets of metal (bronze for the Colossus, copper for Liberty) held in place by ribs sticking out from the support. I have little doubt that the Statue of Liberty was consciously based on the real Colossus of Rhodes. > > As for the statue bestriding the harbor, I suppose you could do it if you had a sufficiently sturdy internal arch or pair of columns leaning against each other for support, but I’d be nervous as hell building it, or sailing under it… > > For an interesting fictionalized read about the building of the Colossus, see if you can find L. Sprague deCamp’s _The Bronze God of Rhodes_. decamp knew his history and his engineering (his book _The Ancient Engineers_ is a classic). Most of the book, as with Ken Follett’s _Pillars of the Earth_, describes the backstory leading up to the construction. Thanks for the Sprague deCamp recommendation. I’ve been meaning to read some of his larger stuff (I remember liking some shorter articles in Analog issues from long ago.) I’m thinking it’s in the 450 feet range, based on guesses at the ship’s mastheight and where on the leg the mast top is even with. Other guesses abound on the 'Net, but they mention the books, and well, you know. I can see a steel-possessing culture being able to build it, but Jeez, how can it take wind loads? Especially those from a storm? Same way an 800 foot or so tall wall can, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/133 "2015-04-21T18:19:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Also, Bronn knows where his bread is buttered. He would be wise to do what Lannisters tell him to do, unless he plans on disappearing across the sea or something. Better send an army. And then send more. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/134 "2015-04-21T18:41:08Z")
So I somehow found Jon Snow suddenly being Lord-Commandered somehow… dissonant. It wasn’t quite as egregious as Kirk essentially being Captained right out of Starfleet Academy, but still, it felt as if this was a heaping helping of protagonist oil to keep the plot gears lubricated, where usually the show is quite good at making a point of subverting this sort of thing. For a moment there, I was seriously wondering if Jon’s career would be cut short by somebody choosing to vote with his sword… ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/135 "2015-04-21T18:43:37Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So I somehow found Jon Snow suddenly being Lord-Commandered somehow… dissonant. It wasn’t quite as egregious as Kirk essentially being Captained right out of Starfleet Academy, but still, it felt as if this was a heaping helping of protagonist oil to keep the plot gears lubricated, where usually the show is quite good at making a point of subverting this sort of thing. For a moment there, I was seriously wondering if Jon’s career would be cut short by somebody choosing to vote with his sword… Well it isn’t like the other guys on the nightswatch don’t already know what a dickwad the other guy was. I bet most of them were happy to have one viable option besides Ser asshole and Lord you’ll need another election in a couple months. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/136 "2015-04-21T18:45:54Z")
It did seem really sudden. Half the show is politics and intrigue, and here we are at potentially the most political part of the Wall storyline, and bloop, it’s over like that. Stannis’ offer to legitimize Jon didn’t have time to sink in, when it was resolved 3 minutes later anyway. It seems like this should’ve at least taken two episodes and had a few intervening scenes. As it was, Stannis’ offer was a legitimate shocker, and could’ve been milked for dramatic potential, but instead the whole thing was over the very next scene. I guess there must be a lot of Night’s Watch territory to cover the rest of the season, so they had to speed through this. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/137 "2015-04-21T18:54:57Z")
Yes, it _was_ somewhat abrupt. I would like to have seen Sam acting as his de facto campaign manager, schmoozing and lining up votes for him behind the scenes. Spelling reminder: Cersei’s brother’s name is “Jaime.” ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/138 "2015-04-21T18:56:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Spelling reminder: Cersei’s brother’s name is “Jaime.” That’s why everyone calls him Kingslayer. Easier to remember the spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/139 "2015-04-21T19:14:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That’s why John Arryn was killed. John Arryn was killed by his wife at the behest of Litttlefinger. We learned that last season. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/140 "2015-04-21T19:22:56Z")
Anyone else think Danny was over acting with her fear of Drogo n? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=8)