# Game of Thrones 5.02 "The House of Black and White" 4/19 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 19, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046 "2015-04-19T16:30:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/161 "2015-04-22T23:52:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Maybe they warged and rode at the same time? We’ve consistently been shown that when warging, your consciousness leaves your body and goes into the target animal. Tough to ride when you’re essentially in a coma. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/162 "2015-04-23T00:16:42Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IIRC during the Conquest one of Aegon’s sisters was able to get the underage King of Mountain and Vale to trade his entire kingdom for a ride on her dragon. Which episode was that mentioned in? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/163 "2015-04-23T00:33:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > We’ve consistently been shown that when warging, your consciousness leaves your body and goes into the target animal. Tough to ride when you’re essentially in a coma. Why? Maybe you strap on and do all the work as a dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/164 "2015-04-23T00:43:04Z")
But if you’re going to mind-control a dragon, why bother riding it? Just do the mind control from someplace safe. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/165 "2015-04-23T00:50:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But if you’re going to mind-control a dragon, why bother riding it? Just do the mind control from someplace safe. Well what if you want to end up at the same place the dragon is going, say to accept surrenders or just because you like to be there in person when you’ve won the battle? ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/166 "2015-04-23T00:59:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well what if you want to end up at the same place the dragon is going, say to accept surrenders or just because you like to be there in person when you’ve won the battle? It could be a rider plus a warg (with the warg either on the dragon or somewhere safer), just a warg, or just a rider. I assume we will see soon, but am guessing the last episode of this season is the earliest we will see dragon riding, and next season seems more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/167 "2015-04-23T09:12:32Z")
It seems pretty clear to me that the dragon/Targaryen connection is different to warging. As in, only Targaryens can do it. I’m pretty sure we’ve seen - perhaps in Shireen’s books - illustrations showing conscious Targaryens riding dragons, much as you’d ride a horse. Now, that might be artistic licence, but it’s the closest thing to evidence we’ve seen so far. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/168 "2015-04-23T11:55:35Z")
I would really love to see a person putting a bridle on a dragon. It is scary enough putting them on a horse with sensitive ears. Come on boy take the bit… I’m guessing Dragons are too intelligent to allow a Warg in. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/169 "2015-04-23T11:55:48Z")
> [@Jack\_Burden](#): > > Still his true motivations remain concealed despite this little speech. Is it about a power grab, his love of Catelyn, getting vengeance on past slights, or him just being an agent of chaos? The appeal of the character lies in nobody knowing what’s in his heart. I have a theory which could explain his motivations. It’s good. But its a hell of a twist if true. Here goes. Littlefinger is a descendent of the Reyne of Castamere, bent on revenge on the Lannisters. For the destruction of their house. No known survivors apparently, but you know how that usually goes… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/170 "2015-04-23T12:31:22Z")
Why is that in a spoiler box? It’s just speculation isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/171 "2015-04-23T13:01:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Why is that in a spoiler box? It’s just speculation isn’t it? Yes, it is speculation, but its a good twist and I wasn’t sure if people want to consider it. Probably unlikely, but GOT seems to be have hints hiding in plain view a lot of times… ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/172 "2015-04-23T13:12:18Z")
Took me a while, but I tracked down the episode (Season 3, ep 8) where Davos is seen reading Shireen’s book about Aegon I and his sister-wives. You can clearly see the picture as his fingers trace the words. [Here](https://www.flickr.com/photos/47223375@N02/14975303928/) is a shot, from a GoT exhibition, of that picture - no spoilers here; it’s just a clearer pic of the same page you can see in the episode. The picture is of Visenya Targaryen, riding her dragon, which is fitted with a saddle. Visenya is clearly conscious and holding a sword aloft. As I said, it _could_ be artistic licence, but at the moment it’s the best evidence we have of how the Targaryens rode their dragons. Not warging. …and it seems _very_ unlikely to me that they’d bother making a picture that is clearly visible in the show that contradicts canon. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/173 "2015-04-23T13:29:24Z")
Yes, I guess I always assumed that’s how they did it, a la Pern. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/174 "2015-04-23T14:21:18Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > … trade his entire kingdom for a ride on her dragon. So, THAT’S what they called it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/175 "2015-04-23T14:38:38Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Maybe they warged and rode at the same time? Rode Wargiors? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/176 "2015-04-23T14:48:42Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > I have a question, are we supposed to have an idea how the murder genies fit into Braavosian society yet? When Jacqen gave Arya the coin he said that any man from Braavos would know what it means and help her, and that seems to be the truth. When the ship captain dude dropped her off at the murder clubhouse, it seemed more out of respect than fear. > > So, are we supposed to know anything beyond that? [del]_Chucky Margolis_[/del] _Valar morghulis_ means ‘All men must die.’ The response is _Valar dohaeris_, which means ‘All men must serve.’ It sounds like a harmless social convention like ‘How are you?’ and ‘I’m fine.’ But it seems a little sinister to me. ‘_Valar morghulis_.’ Translation: I need you to do something for me. No obligation, of course. Say, did you know ‘accidents’ happen every day. Sometimes people just keel over dead. Not that that has anything to do with my request. Just random thoughts in my head. ‘_Valar dohaeris_.’ Translation. Please don’t kill me. I’ll do what you want. AFAIK we haven’t seen anyone have an ‘accident’ after turning down a request. But it seems it might healthier to comply. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/177 "2015-04-23T15:02:44Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Took me a while, but I tracked down the episode (Season 3, ep 8) where Davos is seen reading Shireen’s book about Aegon I and his sister-wives. You can clearly see the picture as his fingers trace the words. > > [Here](https://www.flickr.com/photos/47223375@N02/14975303928/) is a shot, from a GoT exhibition, of that picture. If I’m making out the words under the picture correctly I think it reads: “Visenya Targaryen rode (V word, name of dragon) the smallest of the dragons though still large enough to swallow a “ponye”? whole.” Damn, if that’s the smallest dragon the others must be huge. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/178 "2015-04-23T15:14:48Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > If I’m making out the words under the picture correctly I think it reads: > > “Visenya Targaryen rode (V word, name of dragon) the smallest of the dragons though still large enough to swallow a “ponye”? whole.” > > Damn, if that’s the smallest dragon the others must be huge. 1. Vhaghar 2. Swallow a horse whole. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/179 "2015-04-23T17:24:29Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [del]_Chucky Margolis_[/del] _Valar morghulis_ means ‘All men must die.’ The response is _Valar dohaeris_, which means ‘All men must serve.’ It sounds like a harmless social convention like ‘How are you?’ and ‘I’m fine.’ But it seems a little sinister to me… Nicely done. Makes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046/180 "2015-04-24T00:42:16Z")
lol Cersei seriously hates Margeary Declan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-02-the-house-of-black-and-white-4-19-show-discussion/718046.md?page=10)