# Game of Thrones 5.04 "The Sons of the Harpy" 5/3/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174 "2015-05-03T20:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/61 "2015-05-05T03:38:10Z")
Well an army of men who have been trained to die before surrendering would still be powerful, more cannon fodder than anything else… ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/62 "2015-05-05T07:57:12Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I suspect that Cersei already knows that Littlefinger has Sansa, and that he knows that she knows. Work travels quickly in Westeros. Being the sharpest of the bunch, I wonder what Littlefinger will do to address the strong possibility that he will be detained (at best) once entering King’s Landing (if he goes there at all). At first, I thought that he was just saying that he’s headed for King’s Landing, but really getting the hell out of Dodge before Stannis’s army comes rumbling in. This seems to be the only logical conclusion I can have to this. There’s no way LF would walk into Cersei’s den of power. Maybe LF is with the Tyrells, if he steps foot in KL then it could be under their protection. But I think there’s a good chance he’s going elsewhere. Where, exactly? You never know. Perhaps a chance to introduce the Ironborn again? He’ll not go to Stannis, well, I don’t think Stannis is that forgiving. Then again, he is practical. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/63 "2015-05-05T09:56:01Z")
Cersei just invoked the wrath of her sons killer without knowing it. She is in serious danger and so is her son should the queen be preggers. It would be funny if Tyrion is the one to start a new house Lanister after she brings it down. also we now know Jon is one of Roberts bastards after all thanks to get me pregnant son of kings lady. Regarding the unsullied and their weak ass skills, I think the idea was they were being ambushed and thus supposed to be overwhelmed, it just came across as a bunch of crappy fighters instead. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/64 "2015-05-05T10:07:46Z")
Missed edit window, The reason I think Tommen is in danger if Margy is pregnant is because I could totally see Emma Peel killing him off thus ending Cerseis claim to anything and everything before she poisoned Cersei herself while telling her how she killed both of her sons. ---
**Author:** ![lriemann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e5b9ba/32.png) [@lriemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lriemann)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/65 "2015-05-05T10:17:40Z")
My theory on the unsullied. The unsullied would totally kick the sons’ ass…last year. Think about it, they were a supremely trained and disciplined force, because they had to. That’s what they were sold as- super soldiers. Now, things have changed. The master’s whip is gone, and there is nothing that strong to replace it. They don’t train as hard in meereen (I think) They go to brothels, and probably do some other things that are not soldiery. Iron discipline can melt very quickly, see Pitcairn island and Bounty for more details. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/66 "2015-05-05T11:08:16Z")
Is there anything to Maester Aemon sending a message that he does not feel well? From his point of view Stannis is the new leader of the rebels that slaughtered his family. Maybe he is up to something. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/67 "2015-05-05T11:16:45Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > also we now know Jon is one of Roberts bastards after all thanks to get me pregnant son of kings lady. What? ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/68 "2015-05-05T11:16:56Z")
> [@Critical1](#): > > also we now know Jon is one of Roberts bastards after all thanks to get me pregnant son of kings lady. I’m having trouble parsing this sentence, ‘son of kings lady’? I saw nothing in that episode which hinted that Jon was one of Roberts bastards. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/69 "2015-05-05T12:24:36Z")
I think Critical1 believes that Melisandre’s interest in Jon is because of his having royal blood – but he’s ascribing the source of that blood to a different dynasty than (I think) most fans are. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/70 "2015-05-05T13:05:44Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I think Critical1 believes that Melisandre’s interest in Jon is because of his having royal blood – but he’s ascribing the source of that blood to a different dynasty than (I think) most fans are. Ah, I see how that can be worked out. She seems to think that Jon’s got kings blood in him. But there’s a lot of kings around. King of the north. King of the wildlings. King of the iron islands. One true king of westeros. For instance Theon’s blood has quite a lot of value to her too… Here’s another, as king of the wildlings, wouldn’t she have wanted Mance’s blood. Or is it semen? Always though of the witchywoman being a tad ambigous depending on whether she wanted to kill or screw. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/71 "2015-05-05T14:52:19Z")
The shadow assassin trick apparently needs a characteristically male contribution, but the curse that Melisandra put on Robb, Joffrey, and somebodyelse, just needed (Gendry’s) royal blood. Since her captive magic blood source was last seen rowing his ass away from the crazy people, she’d no doubt like to have another one for all her spooky non-shadowbaby-related magic rituals. Such as Shireen Baratheon, who has a king’s blood, and a mother who has bought into the Lord of Light cult. Going by Stannis’s recent father-daughter talk, it’s a pretty good bet that he’d not sacrifice her to achieve victory. Besides the evident love (who knew he had it in him?), practically speaking there’s little point in being king if you have no heirs. But the crazy ladies might not consult with him before doing something permanent. Perhaps not coincidentally, that paternal pep talk scene is the only time that some dust has landed in my eye while watching the show. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/72 "2015-05-05T15:10:42Z")
I do not see how Cersei knows where Sansa Stark is. Sansa played a part in murdering her son and I do not see Cersei caring if it was willing or not. I think Boltin has a tight lid on the Ravens. How does Peter know Stannis is at the wall? Does Boltin know where Stannis is? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/73 "2015-05-05T15:59:43Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Grey Worm is fine. You can tell because he had no _Moment of Calm/Pleasant/Warm Interaction_ scene in that episode. I can see a short story arc where Missandei nurses him back to health. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/74 "2015-05-05T16:25:20Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > She seems to think that Jon’s got kings blood in him. But there’s a lot of kings around. King of the north. King of the wildlings. King of the iron islands. One true king of westeros. King of the Castle, Master of his Domain… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/75 "2015-05-05T17:55:24Z")
I think that Stannis’ line that ‘this was never Ned’s way’ puts some weight on the idea that Jon, at least, isn’t his bastard; that doesn’t necessary mean he’s Robert’s, but it’s a possibility. (Though if this is the case, I’d be curious as to why it’s such a secret—Robert’s never really been shy regarding the fact that he gets around. I think if there’s something secret about Jon’s ancestry, it’s got some duty and honor-thing behind it we don’t yet quite know; someone Ned felt indebted to for whatever reason.) And I thought that Cersei’s play with the High Sparrow was really clever—she feels that the crown is slipping away from her, so she establishes herself as a patron of the other traditional power in medieval societies, the church. Right now she’s got a foot in the door of both, which comes with quite some leverage. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/76 "2015-05-05T19:05:21Z")
It’s definitely now out there that Jon is of some kind of royal ancestry…and probably isn’t Ned’s kid. The issue I’m seeing is how it will ultimately be revealed… there’s starting to be far fewer people around from that time period and position to know the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Nom\_de\_Plume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85f322/32.png) [@Nom\_de\_Plume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nom_de_Plume)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/77 "2015-05-05T19:27:15Z")
I’ve alwasys wondered if Jon Snow is the son of Robert and Ned’s sister, or would he be too young for that? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/78 "2015-05-05T19:28:44Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I think that Stannis’ line that ‘this was never Ned’s way’ … Is that what Stannis said? I thought he said “But it was Ned’s way” indicating that training Jon to fight, treating him well in his house, was Ned’s way, as opposed to ignoring his bastard children. I don’t think there was any implication that Stannis knew anything of Jon’s lineage. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/79 "2015-05-05T19:41:27Z")
If Jon is not Ned’s son, Ned was being really cruel to Cat all those years. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/80 "2015-05-05T19:44:32Z")
> [@Nom\_de\_Plume](#): > > I’ve alwasys wondered if Jon Snow is the son of Robert and Ned’s sister, or would he be too young for that? Jon was born during Robert’s rebellion. Both people were certainly old enough to have children at that point, but they weren’t married. Robert’s certainly down to father kids out of wedlock, but what do we know of Lyanna’s thoughts on carrying Robert’s child? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174.md?page=5)