# Game of Thrones 5.04 "The Sons of the Harpy" 5/3/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174 "2015-05-03T20:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/161 "2015-05-07T11:28:41Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I’m starting to believe the end of the show will be the surviving characters and dragons facing down a army of millions of zombies and white walkers and…cut to black. The end. > > I just don’t see how they have time left in two more seasons to do a proper “zombie apocalypse in a fantasy setting”. It will be that, and then a movie. Mark that one down as a prediction (maybe not literally, but it will be some set up for a final push/battle of dragons vs white walkers, fade to black, and “to be continued”, and then a movie the next summer). You heard it here first, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/162 "2015-05-07T19:09:15Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Tommen should have taken up his guards offer to clear out the fanatics, as ugly as the deaths would have been Tommen basically just lost any authority or legitimacy he had as king and this is probably the start of coup attempts. > > Immediately after he backs down you can hear the crowd jeering and insulting him as a child of incest. > > A king who lets some fanatics order him around isn’t going to be king for long. I’m inclined to agree, and he’s clearly being portrayed as timid and weak, but I can understand him not wanting to start a fight with a bunch of religious fanatics in the capital. The kingdom has undergone enough strife already; he can find another time to meet with the High Sparrow. I think the insults started even before he decided to back down. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/163 "2015-05-07T19:13:20Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Tommen should have taken up his guards offer to clear out the fanatics, as ugly as the deaths would have been Tommen basically just lost any authority or legitimacy he had as king and this is probably the start of coup attempts. > > Immediately after he backs down you can hear the crowd jeering and insulting him as a child of incest. > > A king who lets some fanatics order him around isn’t going to be king for long. I don’t agree on either an ethical or pragmatic axis. (1) Tommen may just be a moral person who doesn’t want to kill anyone (2) The king having his guards basically start an open war with the country’s primary religion doesn’t seem like a great path to a lengthy and stable reign (3) The fact that he’s just a teenager probably helps him out here, gives him some slack on the “oh, he was weak” scale. Of course he was weak, he’s a teenager. Him bowing to some pressure here is very different than if, say, Robert had done so. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/164 "2015-05-07T19:16:49Z")
Are the Sparrows the primary religion? I got the impression that they’re basically a fundamentalist sect/cult and that the majority of the population belong to the mainstream church. As for him being a teenager, there have been other teenage rulers who were much stronger leaders, even military commanders. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/165 "2015-05-07T19:25:59Z")
When Tywin asked Tommen about what makes a good king, the conclusion was that wisdom makes a good king. At that point, Tywin basically told told Tommen that he was too young to have acquired the wisdom and that, as a young king, he should trust his advisors. Unfortunately for Tommen, all of his good potential advisors have either been killed or skipped town. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/166 "2015-05-07T19:28:53Z")
> [@grude](#): > > …I just don’t see how they have time left in two more seasons to do a proper “zombie apocalypse in a fantasy setting”. Is it certain that there are only 2 seasons left? It’s funny because the 1st season was called “Winter Is Coming” and it hasn’t come yet. Meanwhile, this one is “The Wars to Come”. Maybe they’ll come together? ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/167 "2015-05-07T19:46:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I got the impression that they’re basically a fundamentalist sect/cult and that the majority of the population belong to the mainstream church. They _were_ but Cersei had the other High Septon locked up and promoted this guy to be the new High Septon. So now, basically, the fundamentalists _are_ the mainstream church. And they’re armed. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/168 "2015-05-07T22:46:15Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Is it certain that there are only 2 seasons left? It’s funny because the 1st season was called “Winter Is Coming” and it hasn’t come yet. Meanwhile, this one is “The Wars to Come”. Maybe they’ll come together? In a place where seasons last years to decades…“Winter is coming” could mean it’s still a ways off, but you still need to prepare. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/169 "2015-05-07T23:06:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Are the Sparrows the primary religion? I got the impression that they’re basically a fundamentalist sect/cult and that the majority of the population belong to the mainstream church. > > As for him being a teenager, there have been other teenage rulers who were much stronger leaders, even military commanders. The primary religion of the ruling class of Westeros is the Faith of the Seven. The High Sept is the main “church” and the High Septon is the high priest. The Sparrows are an extremist sect of Seven worshippers. The “Old Gods” are an older religion that are still somewhat followed in the North. They are the ones who worship the trees with faces, like the one at Winterfell. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/170 "2015-05-07T23:12:16Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > No I didn’t. You will note that you are the one repeatedly using the word “science”. That’s not what I meant by saying I’d prefer if it was explained better. I’m saying “science” as a short reference for “detailed explanation of the science or magic behind inheritance in the World of Westerns and how exactly it works.” > [@](#): > > So we know that a dark-haired person fathering a blonde child is no problem in Westeros, or already people would know. Ned sees a line of male ancestors with dark hair and that’s enough to give him reasonable confidence that Joffrey is not Robert’s. > Since it’s not really clear why that’s the case we can have lingering questions such as whether the book is itself incriminating…will whoever sees it know the truth, or was it just some hunch Ned made? What does it matter? We know all we need to know. Ned had X number of facts before him, including that according to some old text that Baratheons only have dark-haired children and that some supposed wise person wrote “the blood runs true.” We know he took all that evidence and drew a conclusion, one that happened to be right. What does it matter whether every bit of that evidence was correct, given that neither Ned nor the person or people who wrote those documents knows how genetic inheritance works.? > [@](#): > > Finally, of course we the viewer know lots of things the characters do not, and if we were reading the novels we’d know much more than that. There is no rule of fiction that we can only know what the characters know. In fiction we know things from _some point of view_. Good fiction doesn’t simply exposit the underlying “science” of the world being described. Who is going to offer the details of genetic inheritance in Westeros, given that no one in Westeros knows how it works? Are we supposed to see it from the point of view of the chromosomes, as if we were watching the White Walkers march south or a blizzard approach? Is the voice of the narrator just supposed to tell us? When it makes absolutely no difference, for the purposes of the story? ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/171 "2015-05-07T23:26:33Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > I do wonder why these threads usually devolve into arguments about genetics or dragon riding… Heh. Last season we had a major thread jack about dragon “riding”, if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/172 "2015-05-08T02:02:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’m saying “science” as a short reference for “detailed explanation of the science or magic behind inheritance in the World of Westerns and how exactly it works.” You’re putting that in quotes like it’s something I’ve said. I didn’t, and it remains a straw man. > [@](#): > > What does it matter? We know all we need to know. According to you. Which of course I don’t care about. > [@](#): > > In fiction we know things from _some point of view_. Good fiction doesn’t simply exposit the underlying “science” of the world being described. I’m simply responding to your point that we should only know what the characters know. Not true in this series, or indeed most fiction. ETA: And once again more uses by you of the word science. > [@](#): > > Who is going to offer the details of genetic inheritance in Westeros, given that no one in Westeros knows how it works? Well they obviously know _something_, or no-one would care what someone’s apparent child looked like. You’re basically inferring that it was something of a hunch on Ned’s part. It could be…I’m just saying they didn’t explain that part very well so we don’t know if it was a hunch or he had sufficient information. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/173 "2015-05-08T02:36:06Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You’re putting that in quotes like it’s something I’ve said. > I didn’t, and it remains a straw man. No, I defined my term, because you didn’t seem to understand what I meant by it. If you want to use a different term and a different definition, then propose it yourself. That’s how discussion works. > [@](#): > > According to you. Which of course I don’t care about. Then what exactly do we need to know? Who can tell us that? From which point of view can it be told? How will it change the story? How will it advance the story? > [@](#): > > I’m simply responding to your point that we should only know what the characters know. Not true in this series, or indeed most fiction. I did not say that audiences of fiction never have any information that any particular character has in that work. I’m saying that in this case, with this particular detail, there is no logical, reasonable, or artful way for us to get this knowledge, other than the narrator just right out and tell us in exposition. And even if that happened, it would not enhance our understanding of the story at all, because it’s not knowledge that the characters have any way of understanding or acting on. With this particular piece of information, we should only know what the characters know, because there’s no other point of view—other than direct exposition by the narrator—for us to find out. If you think that’s wrong, then propose a way that the story could tell us that. How would you like _Game of Thrones_ to tell us exactly what’s going on with inheritance in the Baratheon family, and what would be the relevance to the story? How would it change the story? What would it tell us about the characters that is relevant to the story? > [@](#): > > ETA: And once again more uses by you of the word science. I already defined my use of the word “science” for the purposes of this discussion. If you object to either the word or the definition, propose your own. > [@](#): > > Well they obviously know _something_, or no-one would care what someone’s apparent child looked like. They know what a pre-genetic science human civilization knows. Can you not imagine yourself in that position? Children generally look like their parents, but not always a lot like either parent. The children of two people generally look similar to each other, but not always. Targaryens marry their sister and have white hair. People with dark hair generally have children with dark hair, but not always. But here’s a book that says that Baratheons always father children with dark hair because “the blood runs true.” > [@](#): > > You’re basically inferring that it was something of a hunch on Ned’s part. It could be…I’m just saying they didn’t explain that part very well so we don’t know if it was a hunch or he had sufficient information. No I am not. This distinction between “hunch” and “knowledge” is essentially meaningless in this situation. Is that a hunch? From Ned’s point of view, it’s not a hunch. He has evidence and he has an authority whose word he respects. That’s all the information he has. We as the audience are given it only from his point of view. Why should you get information about the underlying \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ (fill in your own word since you object to “science”) of inheritance in his world. Do you think Ned thinks or believes or knows that it was a hunch? He knows that the authority he read says that “the blood runs true” and that Baratheons always father children with dark hair. That’s all he knows about inheritance in this respect and he put that together with the other information he had to reach a conclusion. Proposition 1: Rule from best knowledge (old dusty tome written by respected ancients): Baratheons always father dark-haired children because “the blood runs true.” Proposition 2: Cersei Lannister has borne three children while married to Robert Baratheon, all with blond hair. Conclusion: Robert Baratheon is not the father of Cersei Lannister’s three children. Looks like perfectly valid reasoning to me, not a hunch. Now, Proposition 1 would seem to be strange in real life. Why would that happen? How would that happen? We might look into the genetics of the Baratheon family to see how that works. But that’s only because of what _we_ know in the real world. We might try to find a more reliable way of recording the hair color of everyone fathered by a Baratheon. We might use our modern methods of gathering evidence about the phenotypes displayed by the Baratheon family and our modern methods of investigating genetics to figure out whether Proposition 1 is true. In Ned’s world, none of these things exist. He can’t even conceive of them. Proposition 1 is as good as knowledge about the world gets to him. That’s his _science_, in both the literal sense (from the Latin word for “knowledge”) and in the sense we usually use it (“how we gather knowledge about the world”). ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/174 "2015-05-08T03:55:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, I defined my term, because you didn’t seem to understand what I meant by it. If you want to use a different term and a different definition, then propose it yourself. That’s how discussion works. It’s a straw man and a very low debating tactic. Anyone casually reading these posts would think I was the one who mentioned science, since every time you put it in scare quotes. Since no-one is talking about science except you, there is no need to further elaborate what you mean by that, except to confuse and steer the conversation. > [@](#): > > Then what exactly do we need to know? Who can tell us that? From which point of view can it be told? How will it change the story? How will it advance the story? Like I already said several times, it would be good to know if Ned thought he had found evidence or just it triggered a hunch, because for one thing I’d know if the book itself is incriminating. It’s not a big deal btw. If you had asked me what the biggest gripes were about season 1, it probably wouldn’t make that list. I’m only posting about this because you keep pressing about it. I don’t understand why this one point is so objectionable to you. > [@](#): > > I’m saying that in this case, with this particular detail, there is no logical, reasonable, or artful way for us to get this knowledge, other than the narrator just right out and tell us in exposition. Or, you know, characters talking. > [@](#): > > They know what a pre-genetic science human civilization knows. Can you not imagine yourself in that position? And this is an inference by you. I have made a similar inference too, all I’m saying is it would have been better in the story if it was clearer which was the case. The rest of your post is similarly speculation about what happened and what the characters know. Why do you think your speculation should be the end of the discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/175 "2015-05-08T04:32:48Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It’s a straw man and a very low debating tactic. Anyone casually reading these posts would think I was the one who mentioned science, since every time you put it in scare quotes. That’s ridiculous. I used a term, you objected to it, so I explained what I meant by it and then I even explained why I used the term. I then offered you the chance to propose your own term and own definition . But you refuse to do that. I put it in quotes because I acknowledge that I am not using the term exactly as it is understood in general usage and then I defined that. Nowhere did I attribute it to to you. Again: if you object to it, propose your own term. > [@](#): > > Since no-one is talking about science except you, there is no need to further elaborate what you mean by that, except to confuse and steer the conversation. Science is term I chose because it is the most appropriate term. I defined it and explained why I used it. Propose your own term. Calling it a straw man is a cop out. If you reject my term explain your objection and offer an alternative. > [@](#): > > Like I already said several times, it would be good to know if Ned thought he had found evidence or just it triggered a hunch, because for one thing I’d know if the book itself is incriminating. Why would this be good? What would it add to your understanding of the story? What would it change? > [@](#): > > It’s not a big deal btw. I don’t care how big a deal it is. You proposed something purporting to make the story better when it would objectively not make the story better. It would give us a certainty in a situation in which true certainty adds nothing to the story. > [@](#): > > Or, you know, characters talking. Characters who know nothing about how genetic inheritance works would say what, for example? This is the limit of the knowledge they have about the world they live in. How do characters talk about something that they can’t even conceive of existing? > [@](#): > > And this is an inference by you. I have made a similar inference too, all I’m saying is it would have been better in the story if it was clearer which was the case. Why? What would it change? How would this enhance the story? > [@](#): > > The rest of your post is similarly speculation about what happened and what the characters know. Why do you think your speculation should be the end of the discussion? Which part is speculation rather than a reasonable understanding of the story as it is given? Should we ask the story to tell us more about Cersei’s admission? Perhaps she is mistaken that Robert never inseminated her (after the death of her firstborn). Why doesn’t the story confirm whether her memory is faulty or whether Robert raped her when she was drunk or whether she might not have had a minor stroke or a small brain tumor or blood clot that affected her memory? Why does the story not confirm that Cersei isn’t for some insane reason giving a false confession to Ned because of s minor stroke, etc.? Or maybe that she has suppressed some memory because she doesn’t want to admit to herself that there is a slim chance that Robert is the biological father of one or more of them? Why are the specific parameters of this information being withheld? I’ll tell you why it’s a \*good[/i{ thing that we as an audience don’t have an exact understanding of how inheritance works genetically—because it forces us to live in Ned’s point of view, where this is the limit of knowledge. This is as certain as facts get. This is all that this person in this time in this situation can know and must act upon. This is something that puts us as an audience in the story rather than observing from outside it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/176 "2015-05-08T04:36:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It’s a straw man and a very low debating tactic. Anyone casually reading these posts would think I was the one who mentioned science, since every time you put it in scare quotes. I have been reading the thread, and though I’m now starting to skip both of your posts, up until now it was crystal clear to me that you were talking about science with your complaints about Westeros not adhering to proper genetic science. You started this tedious tangent off with: > [@Mijin](#): > > Right; we can speculate since either genetics doesn’t work the same in Westeros as Earth, or people like Ned Stark jumped to conclusions. “Genetics doesn’t work the same way in Westeros” is clearly, unambiguously, and undeniably talking about science. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/177 "2015-05-08T05:37:56Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > You started this tedious tangent off with:“Genetics doesn’t work the same way in Westeros” is clearly, unambiguously, and undeniably talking about science. Right, but the straw man is that I want them to talk about science in the show, which I have never said. And I agree it’s a tedious tangent. I’ve merely being defending myself against claims I never made. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/178 "2015-05-08T09:43:41Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Right, but the straw man is that I want them to talk about science in the show, which I have never said. That’s not a strawman: > [@Mijin](#): > > If [genetics doesn’t work the same in westeros], it would improve my enjoyment if some kind of consistent rule could be shown […] Some rule where we can say “If n generations of a phenotype, all subsequent generations will certainly have that phenotype, where n is greater than…I dunno…2” ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/179 "2015-05-08T11:47:23Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > If [genetics doesn’t work the same in westeros], it would improve my enjoyment if some kind of consistent rule could be shown […] Some rule where we can say “If n generations of a phenotype, all subsequent generations will certainly have that phenotype, where n is greater than…I dunno…2” That was me giving an example of something they could _not_ do in the show. But yeah, I use scientific terms when I’m talking about these things (just as I used scientific terms to describe kids basically taking after their parents, which no-one disputes they are aware of in Westeros) but _of course_ I don’t want them to use science in the show. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174/180 "2015-05-08T13:58:14Z")
You’re hung up on the word “science.” Use another word, any word, to explain what you want them to show and how. Better yet, write the scene you wanted to see and explain how it makes the show better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-04-the-sons-of-the-harpy-5-3-15-show-discussion/719174.md?page=10)