# Game of Thrones 5.05 "Kill the Boy" 5/10/15 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723 "2015-05-10T20:59:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/141 "2015-05-14T16:54:37Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > On the show we never really saw her be terrible terrible to Jon… She’s a dick to him when he goes to see Bran but it doesn’t seem like she goes out of her way to be cruel. I kind of imagine she largely didn’t acknowledge his existence at all in the day to day life at Winterfell. Jon doesn’t get to sit at the big table at the solstice feast and he doesn’t get name day presents but she doesn’t make him eat glass. > I forget if she gives details in her speech about it… but even in that speech doesn’t she talk about how she took care of him when he was sick and prayed for him to survive and if he did she’d accept him… and he did and she didn’t and still feels guilty about it. You don’t see her DOING it, but she does talk about doing it so it did happen. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/142 "2015-05-14T16:55:55Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would be better if that were deleted, and not spoiler boxed, as the way we’ve run these threads is that there are no spoilers, even in spoiler boxes. Otherwise we run the risk of having several different discussions at once, with half of them spoiler boxed and off-limits to who want to participate in the thread without spoilers. To allow spoiler-boxed spoilers invites a mess. It also would be better if he didn’t actually confirm it was real imo. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/143 "2015-05-14T17:00:20Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > On the show we never really saw her be terrible terrible to Jon… She’s a dick to him when he goes to see Bran but it doesn’t seem like she goes out of her way to be cruel. I kind of imagine she largely didn’t acknowledge his existence at all … They don’t show us every single moment of their lives. Catelyn’s own admission plus the looks that passed between Ned and Jon are enough to establish that Catelyn was emotionally cold to Jon and never let him forget he was an outsider. There’s no reason to believe there was physical cruelty but there’s enough there to support s conclusion that yes she was a major dick to an innocent child. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/144 "2015-05-14T17:01:05Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > On the show we never really saw her be terrible terrible to Jon… She’s a dick to him when he goes to see Bran but it doesn’t seem like she goes out of her way to be cruel. There are a few scenes in which she’s clearly being deliberately shitty to Jon. The one you mention - where he tries to say goodbye to his critically injured brother who he may never see again - she can’t go 15 fucking seconds of treating him with basic human decency. There are also a few scenes early in season 1 where she basically just scowls at Jon and makes sure he knows he’s unwanted. It seems clear that she doesn’t just ignore him, that she goes out of her way whenever she interacts with him to make sure he knows he’s not welcome and that she hates him. 17 (?) years of making someone’s life shitty who did nothing wrong to you, who isn’t really the one you’re mad at in the first place, who was just a kid who tried to grow up like other kids, and be treated with a modicum of decency. Catelyn not only couldn’t even do that, but she went to the other extreme and tried to make him feel as unwelcome as possible. For 17 years. His whole life. A little kid, for fucks sake. She’s a monster. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/145 "2015-05-14T17:19:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would be better if that were deleted, and not spoiler boxed, as the way we’ve run these threads is that there are no spoilers, even in spoiler boxes. Otherwise we run the risk of having several different discussions at once, with half of them spoiler boxed and off-limits to who want to participate in the thread without spoilers. To allow spoiler-boxed spoilers invites a mess. I agree. Let’s keep this spoiler-free. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/146 "2015-05-14T19:06:13Z")
I also agree. It’s right in the OP, as it has been for a loooooong time now in these threads. ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/147 "2015-05-14T19:22:57Z")
Come on! An unlabelled spoiler box? Then an immediate unspoilered confirmation? I don’t often post in these threads, but always read them as I’m confident that they’re “safe”, after all the controversy of previous seasons. Those posts need to be deleted, or a warning that they contain real spoilers, not just a joke or smart comment. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/148 "2015-05-14T19:58:49Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > There are a few scenes in which she’s clearly being deliberately shitty to Jon. The one you mention - where he tries to say goodbye to his critically injured brother who he may never see again - she can’t go 15 fucking seconds of treating him with basic human decency. > > There are also a few scenes early in season 1 where she basically just scowls at Jon and makes sure he knows he’s unwanted. > > It seems clear that she doesn’t just ignore him, that she goes out of her way whenever she interacts with him to make sure he knows he’s not welcome and that she hates him. > > 17 (?) years of making someone’s life shitty who did nothing wrong to you, who isn’t really the one you’re mad at in the first place, who was just a kid who tried to grow up like other kids, and be treated with a modicum of decency. Catelyn not only couldn’t even do that, but she went to the other extreme and tried to make him feel as unwelcome as possible. For 17 years. His whole life. A little kid, for fucks sake. She’s a monster. Eh, I took the scowling as a TV way to show she doesn’t love him, not that she’s been deliberately shitty to him. They actually interact, what, one time? They needed to be heavy handed otherwise we might think she feels the same way she feels about, say, Rickon, whom she never interacted with at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/149 "2015-05-14T22:09:46Z")
> [@Galwegian](#): > > Come on! An unlabelled spoiler box? Then an immediate unspoilered confirmation? I know. I wish I hadn’t read that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/150 "2015-05-14T22:14:35Z")
> [@Queen\_Tonya](#): > > I was passing time at work rewatching the series from the beginning and noticed a few things… For those that love this show, I absolutely recommend watching the series again from Season 1. You notice so many more things. The show and story are incredibly tight, and you can see that the writer had an end-state in mind. There are parts in the early seasons that they knew they would come back to in much later seasons. This is why I asked about how people knew that there would only be 1-2 more seasons. It makes complete sense that there is a limited time frame. Now when the prequel series _The Targaryens_ comes out, it may be a different story. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/151 "2015-05-14T22:23:40Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Now when the prequel series _The Targaryens_ comes out, it may be a different story. 😃 I heard they we going to call it, _“Better Call Rhaegar”_ ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/152 "2015-05-14T22:30:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > It would be better if that were deleted, and not spoiler boxed, as the way we’ve run these threads is that there are no spoilers, even in spoiler boxes. Otherwise we run the risk of having several different discussions at once, with half of them spoiler boxed and off-limits to who want to participate in the thread without spoilers. To allow spoiler-boxed spoilers invites a mess. Agree! I almost clicked the spoiler box, glad I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/153 "2015-05-14T22:58:03Z")
I think the spoiler box was just an immediate solution, since they [apparently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=756938) are not supposed to just outright delete posts and are having to discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/154 "2015-05-14T23:59:02Z")
Well, it’s official–the Facebook recaps are no more. ☹ > [@](#): > > @JohnnyMcNulty: @law\_monkey @jakecurrie We’re bummed too. unfortunately we were tying up our graphics guy for 2 days a week for not enough traffic. As I told them, the FB recaps were part of my regular GoT weekly routine, and I looked forward to them every week, so I’m a bit bummed. The new, um, effin’ recap is… not quite the same. Ahwell. ---
**Author:** ![franz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@franz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/franz)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/155 "2015-05-15T02:14:24Z")
General thoughts on 5x05: - Jesus Christ, when I think Daenerys can’t get any more stupid, she proves me wrong: a) when you threat to kill all the former rulers of slavery state, and you end feeding only one of them to dragons, stating that it’s just a “warning” you’re just doing two things that are insanely dangerous to yourself - giving the masters reason to try even harder to get rid of you, before you end deciding to actually kill all of them, and giving your already kind of unruly dragons a taste for human flesh… b) there’s a very important difference between conceding the demands of your oppositors at the first time they made them (showing goodwill) and giving in to them after shit had hit the fan (showing weakness). Well, at least one thing Dumbnerys did right: alliance with a former master throug marriage, which could give buy her some much needed goodwill. - I’ll not pretend to be a master on Westeros’s geography, but is it the only way to Mereen through a place infested by people with a plague? Because if not, Jorah is an idiot… - The more I look at the big picture, the more I think Stanis is the better “medicine” to every Westeros “diseases”. He’s not only the most strong-willed, wise and smart among the competitors for the Iron Throne, but he’s also surrounding himself with the best allies. - Jon Snow pretty much confirmed for Targaryen! Also, finally growing a pair and acting like a leader over the Nightwatchers. - The writers better not let me down with Ramsey’s death, as they did with Joffrey. This vicious cunt deserve the most horrible, awful death ever put into a tv show! - Samsa continues to be a dumb idiot. A woman that gives all the signs of being untrustable says her to enter a dark place with raging dogs and guess what? Yes, keep pushing your lucky like that, Samsa… ps there are some rumors about [sophie turner getting naked](http://nudesman.com/topic/sophie-turner-nude-scene-in-game-of-thrones/page/6/) nsfw ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/156 "2015-05-15T02:30:52Z")
> [@franz](#): > > - I’ll not pretend to be a master on Westeros’s geography, but is it the only way to Mereen through a place infested by people with a plague? Because if not, Jorah is an idiot… Its not, he went through there because it was the place everyone avoids and he didn’t want to run into pirates. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/157 "2015-05-15T03:09:22Z")
I don’t see any reason to believe that Daenerys has neglected to train her dragons. We have seen then respond to voice commands after all. Mate she has reached the limit of how much training can be done without the help of expertise. And I haven’t seen any evidence that any dragon experts are around. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/158 "2015-05-15T03:44:37Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Also, someone mentioned only one more season after this one. Is that also stated anywhere? HBO obviously wants around 100 seasons (1000 episodes is a nice round number) but the showrunners want seven seasons total, meaning two more after the current one. As a compromise, HBO wouldn’t hate it if season 7 were extended and split into two halves, similar to the Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Maybe 14 episodes instead of 10, seven per half. (Just my guess on the numbers.) [‘Game of Thrones’ team: 7 seasons is the plan](http://www.ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons) [HBO talks Game of Thrones future: More than 7 seasons wanted](http://www.ew.com/article/2015/03/11/game-thrones-end) ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/159 "2015-05-15T07:46:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think the spoiler box was just an immediate solution, since they [apparently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=756938) are not supposed to just outright delete posts and are having to discuss it. This is correct. Normally, we use deletion of posts as a very last resort. It’s typically done only with spammers. Even the posts/topics that a troll or sock makes will usually just be moved (to the moderation forum, AKA the cornfield), but not actually deleted. And we get a lot of requests regularly from posters who ask to delete their topics or posts (or others topics and posts) and our answer is usually always the same: “Sorry, but we hardly ever delete posts unless there is very, very good reason”. So a mod discussion was started to see if most staff members thought this was very, very good reason. So I haven’t deleted the post, [but I have moved it out of this thread and into the one that is about book spoilers.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=754326) I hope this will suffice and I hope that not many had seen the spoiler before it was removed. If anyone has anything else to say about this subject, please feel free to make a thread in ATMB, just so this one doesn’t get filled with discussion about whether or not posts like that should be deleted. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723/160 "2015-05-15T08:56:24Z")
Sounds good, thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-05-kill-the-boy-5-10-15-show-discussion/719723.md?page=9)