# Game of Thrones 5.06 "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" 5/17/15 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249 "2015-05-17T17:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/261 "2015-05-21T16:07:16Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > If not that, what did you mean when you said, “After all, fiction is a story we tell about ourselves” in the context of your objections to Sansa’s rape scene? Weren’t you implying that we shouldn’t include such scenes in stories we tell about ourselves? First of all, I have not once that any particular kind of event, whether rape or framing, should or should not be included as a category in any kind of fiction. I have never even said that Sansa should not have been raped by Ramsey as a matter of plot. Does that help you recontextualize that comment? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/262 "2015-05-21T16:28:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > First of all, I have not once that any particular kind of event, whether rape or framing, should or should not be included as a category in any kind of fiction. > > I have never even said that Sansa should not have been raped by Ramsey as a matter of plot. > > Does that help you recontextualize that comment? Not really. You just listed a couple of things you have not said. You did not say what you meant when you wrote the line I quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/263 "2015-05-21T16:35:10Z")
So, no, you’re not going to bother giving it any more thought. Fair enough. I’ll get to your question if and when I feel like bothering. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Evil_Prince_Zorte)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/264 "2015-05-21T21:30:48Z")
For people who thought that the GOT writers needlessly included yet another rape, or should have handled it differently, what should have happened after the wedding? It is assumed and expected that a high born couple will have sex on the wedding night. Tyrion was exceptional in his consideration for Sansa’s feelings by refusing to do that. It has been well established that Ramsey is not that kind of person. For him to defer wedding night sex out of gentleness, or to woo Sansa would have been completely out of character. As it is he made it impersonal, unpleasant and a little weird- I would have expected some outright violence, fetish and mind-f\*cking from him, but maybe he’s working up to it. Maybe instead of showing what is a very important moment in Sansa’s (and maybe Theon’s) life, they should have instead cut from the wedding to breakfast with Roose and Walda the next morning in which they say that yes, we did have sex last night and it was lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/265 "2015-05-21T21:55:40Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > My point is that rational beings such as the GoT showrunners make decisions about what to film based on what they believe the audience will find interesting and compelling viewing–i.e. on what the audience will enjoy seeing as opposed to what the audience will reject. > > There are forms of violence that the majority of the audience would reject, and then the showrunners would be out of a job. So the showrunners, understandably enough, show the particular forms of violence that will lead viewers to continue tuning in. … > [@clairobscur](#): > > Playing well with the audience isn’t the same thing at all as the audience enjoying the scene (which I, and I think others, understood as “woah! There will be a rape scene in this episode! I love rape scenes so much!” like, say, the way they show nudity because guys want to see boobs). > For instance, I don’t think the audience “enjoyed” the Red Wedding scene, but it’s probably the most famous of the show. I think it’s worth questioning the dichotomy you postulate (between “enjoying” and “playing well with the audience.”) I would suspect that the division is false, and springs from the infinite fund of rationalizations with which our species is so well-supplied. This is exactly what I was trying to get at when I mentioned in post 208 of this thread: > [@](#): > > … if you asked people who flocked to public hangings in (say) 19th century America if they were enjoying watching people experience the agony of hanging, I’m sure they’d have said “No, of course not: what I enjoy is seeing justice served.” > > And if you asked people watching gladiatorial combat in ancient Rome if they were enjoying watching people experience the agony of being chopped up and impaled and so on, I’m sure they’d have said “No, of course not: what I enjoy is seeing the will of the Gods made manifest.” > > And on and on. We humans aren’t much on self-honesty when it comes to these things. But you can bet that the HBO producers know on which side their bread is buttered. You mention that the Red Wedding is possibly the most famous scene of the show. Even if a particular viewer would not use the word “enjoyment” about the scene, that viewer might well recommend the show to others with a comment such as ‘you won’t believe how amazing this scene was; it will blow you away’ or something of that kind. Yes, it’s certainly possible to find something compelling–and yet to resist using the word “enjoy” about it. But that’s really just semantics. The point is: it brings viewers to the show. > [@tim314](#): > > I find it kind of absurd how many people are saying “How can you object to _rape_ when you didn’t object to X, Y, and Z?!” Obviously people are going to be more upset by violence perpetrated against a character they care about – as well they should be, given that these are fictional characters whose imaginary lives only matter in as much as they are meaningful to the audience. I agree. Those claiming that a laundry list of violence against secondary or tertiary _Game of Thrones_ characters somehow “should” rank as More Upsetting than violence against primary characters, are being naïve about the way fiction works. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/266 "2015-05-21T23:10:58Z")
…if only there was a whole thread dedicated to this one topic… anyway… Sansa’s sweater dress was pretty awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/267 "2015-05-22T03:05:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes, it’s certainly possible to find something compelling–and yet to resist using the word “enjoy” about it. But that’s really just semantics. The point is: it brings viewers to the show. I don’t think it’s “just semantics”. I regularly watch the news. Does that mean I _enjoy_ hearing that ISIS has beheaded more people or thousands have died in an earthquake? No. What I “enjoy”, if anything, is being up to date with what’s happening. With a show like GOT I enjoy the fact it is like a complete world with it’s own rules; it avoids many of the common fantasy tropes and is more unpredictable as a result. I like that. Part of that however is that sometimes very unpleasant things happen, sometimes requiring me to turn away from the screen. Indeed I know some people who have to fast forward past the particularly nasty stuff. It would be very misleading to call that “enjoy”. > [@](#): > > Those claiming that a laundry list of violence against secondary or tertiary _Game of Thrones_ characters somehow “should” rank as More Upsetting than violence against primary characters, are being naïve about the way fiction works. Yes, people! Quit giving examples of violence that happened to secondary and tertiary characters, like daenerys targaryen, robb stark, catlyn stark, ned stark, jaime lannister, theon greyjoy… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/268 "2015-05-22T03:24:28Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …if only there was a whole thread dedicated to this one topic… I know, right? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/269 "2015-05-22T03:29:43Z")
Yeah guys, stop discussing the show in the thread that’s about discussing the show! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/270 "2015-05-22T20:18:31Z")
[ColdPlay Presents Game of Thrones: The Musical](https://youtu.be/zs7xO5P3Az4) No spoilers and brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/271 "2015-05-22T20:29:59Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …if only there was a whole thread dedicated to this one topic… > . Even better, would be three threads! If only … ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/272 "2015-05-22T23:39:12Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > A man walks through a busy city street pushing a cart. > “Coooocks! Getcher cocks right here! Cock merchant coming through! Best cocks in Essos! Dwarf cocks, pirate cocks, unsullied cocks - cocks of all shapes and sizes! Coooooocks! Getcher cocks here!” Customer: Two cock-ices please. Man: I haven’t got cock-ices. I only got cock. Cocks! Customer: What flavour is it? Man: It’s a cock, innit? It’s a bloody male organ… it’s not any bloody flavour. Cock! Customer: Do you get vaginas with it? Man: Course you don’t get bloody vaginas with it. Cock! Customer: How much is it? Man: Nine copper pennies. Customer: I’ll have two please. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/273 "2015-05-23T01:58:14Z")
Prostate on a stick! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/274 "2015-05-23T15:11:49Z")
Pretty sure “cock merchant” was a joke. Slavers can’t have senses of humor? ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/275 "2015-05-23T17:30:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Prostate on a stick! Makes flagpole-sitting look like child’s play. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/276 "2015-05-23T19:10:21Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Anyway, not as if I’d have expected any less of a 5 page discussion on the definitions of rape on threads which typically have massive arguments about riding a dragon (something which hasn’t actually happened on the show so far). > > There was something else apart from the rape and the showing of it, about Sansa. > > I don’t buy the way its been presented so far. > > So, Littlefinger marches Sansa up to possibly one her most sworn enemies, having previously plotted with her, and taken both interest as a protege and a love interest, and just dumps her there to be obviously raped. > > Without her own guards. > > … I’d like to think LF has any interests other than his own, but frankly if the only thing standing between him being Warden of the North was having Sansa’s head on a spike, he’d do it himself in a heartbeat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249.md?page=13)