# Game of Thrones 5.06 "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken" 5/17/15 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249 "2015-05-17T17:44:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/101 "2015-05-19T14:53:19Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > That was roughly my understanding. Not poison, but Lansel at the behest of Cersei screwed with the wine in such a way as to slow down Robert enough for a typical hunt to turn fatal. When they were talking at the beginning of the season, I assumed that was the big sin he was suggesting she should ask the gods’ forgiveness for. You don’t think committing treason against the crown by sleeping with the queen is a bigger sin? Add to it that it’s also adultery. And maybe incest? (They’re first cousins, which might not be considered incest in their social circle.) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/102 "2015-05-19T14:56:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Aside from any scene involving Gilly, which are invariably a complete waste, the Dorne climax was the worst scene this show has ever had. The entire plot line was awful. “Bronn and Jamie road trip” sounded fun and had a lot potential, but there was only about 4 minutes of it filmed and half of that was badly choreographed fight scenes. > > The Sand Snakes were awful and pathetic. They speechified with awful dialogue, they were totally not credible as threats/badasses, they tried and [failed pretty hard](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTkL62YnTA) at that characterization. Obara apparently preceeds every line of dialogue with “I am the daughter of Oberyn Martell. He took to me to court and taught me to fight. Please pass the salt, grandma” > > The grand master plan Jaime and Bronn had to conduct this significant kidnapping was to stroll into the Prince’s guardian, unchecked, and then whisper to a confused Myrcella from the bushes. And just by sheer coincidence, they arrived at the exact same moment as the teenage mutant ninja sand snakes. > > So we were treated to an awfully choreographed fight where some characters who didn’t look like they could rob a little old lady somehow took on master killer Bronn. It looked like the fight scene of a high school musical. > > Oh, and Bronn, easily one of the best characters in the show, is going to die from that abortion, giving him a totally unworthy death scene. “Oh for fooks sake” indeed. The whole sand snake thing felt like it belonged in a different, much shittier show. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/103 "2015-05-19T15:04:08Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Does anyone else think that the Sand’s burning desire to avenge Oberyn by harming Marcella is decidedly un-Oberyn-like? They were kidnapping her. If they wanted to harm or kill her they would have just stabbed her and not tried to run off with her. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/104 "2015-05-19T15:14:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I doubt he’s over correcting. He’s not cruel but beyond that he doesn’t know what he’s supposed to be doing. I just think no one has ever taught him anything about being a king. Tywin didn’t live long enough to train him and Cersei just wants to manipulate him. I didn’t say it was the only thing he was doing, just that it’s possible that trying to be not-Jeoffrey is on his mind. Jeoffrey didn’t know what the hell he was doing either, but since he was a cruel person, he veered towards violence and killing when faced with a decision. Tommen doesn’t know what he’s doing, either, but he clearly veers away from violence, and it’s not unreasonable to think that he does it because he doesn’t want to be Jeoffrey 2.0. I know it’s speculation, but I think it gives him a bit more character than just “dumbass young king.” > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > They were kidnapping her. If they wanted to harm or kill her they would have just stabbed her and not tried to run off with her. They weren’t taking her to a tea party. Kidnapping is a hostile act, and they clearly wanted to harm her, just more slowly than a quick ambush killing would allow. They weren’t in it for gold, so they weren’t going to ransom her. My guess is that they were going to torment Cersei by frequently sending her pieces of Myrcella. Oberyn would have been furious at them. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/105 "2015-05-19T15:23:10Z")
Agreed to all that, **oft wears hats**. And it’s “Joffrey.” ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/106 "2015-05-19T15:51:15Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Character is like, 14, and has just been elected [del]President[/del]. On top of that, he was at least one step down the line of succession. Until Robert Baratheon had his hunting accident, he wouldn’t have been expected to ascend to the throne until he was an older man–and that assumes Joffrey produces no heirs. He is literally the most naive, manipulable, inexperienced, inappropriate person for the job person in all of Westeros. Even given all of that, he’s basically had the best (only) sex in his life and if for no other reason than that he should have gone ape shit over them arresting her. Guys would do a lot more stupid stuff with little other motivation than that! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/107 "2015-05-19T16:03:51Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Even given all of that, he’s basically had the best (only) sex in his life and if for no other reason than that he should have gone ape shit over them arresting her. Guys would do a lot more stupid stuff with little other motivation than that! “Guys” have a very wide range of responses to things. There’s nothing unrealistic about Tommen’s reaction. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/108 "2015-05-19T16:06:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Even given all of that, he’s basically had the best (only) sex in his life and if for no other reason than that he should have gone ape shit over them arresting her. Guys would do a lot more stupid stuff with little other motivation than that! 😃 Says the guy glossed **Bone**! I agree with you of course. The problem was, they were in the church’s stronghold and outnumbered. Add to that Tommen is soft and there you have it. I am surprised the sparrows are so full of vinegar so quickly though. We’ve been told the Tyrells have ~100000 men under arms. No matter how strong your faith is cudgels and staves versus battle hardened soldiers and knights is a no win. If anything untoward happens to the young roses I expect Kings Landing to get another raping pdq. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/109 "2015-05-19T16:16:17Z")
Religious zealots overreaching and going too far, against their own best interests and perhaps to their mortal peril. Whodathunkit? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/110 "2015-05-19T16:30:33Z")
Tommen’s only chance (to avoid bloodshed) would have been to put his Kingsguard in front of Margaery the moment the fanatics started to approach her. The big problem, in my opinion, is that whoever starts the bloodshed will be blamed. So once they’ve wrapped her up in their arms, the Kingsguard would have to probably kill the fanatics to free her. But if they’re standing in front of her, then the fanatics have to attack first, and the Kingsguard would be seen (IMO) as protecting the King’s family. I doubt the High Sparrow would have ordered his fanatics to attacked armed/armored knights to arrest Margaery. Not that Tommen was probably thinking this way – I’m sure he was paralyzed by fear and lack of confidence (and he looked to Cersei for guidance). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/111 "2015-05-19T16:36:07Z")
With thanks to **magnusblitz** , over in the other GOT thread: (SFW, no spoilers): [Teenage Dornish Ninja Sand Snakes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTkL62YnTA). This is dripping with Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/112 "2015-05-19T16:58:43Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > What happened to Sansa has less to do with any kind of plot, and is just to kick someone we like to continue the villain cycle. > The strings are showing. I gotta say, I just don’t get this opinion. “The strings are showing”. As in, the character of Sansa was maneuvered into an unlikely and contrived situation where something tragic but improbable happened to her? I think almost exactly the opposite. As of the beginning of this season, Sansa is a young beautiful virgin who is the sole known surviving member of a powerful and much-loved noble house. She is also in the clutches of a masterful and fairly amoral but extremely ambitious political manipulator. Far and away the most likely fate for her is to be married off to someone she has never met for political gain, and, in the world of Westeros as presented to us, that is going to involve what to us seems like marital rape. Granted, Ramsey is a particularly horrible person, but he’s also the most eligible bachelor we know about who is anywhere near the same part of the world. I think there’s an interesting parallel here between this scene and Ned getting beheaded at the end of season 1. That seemed inevitable for several episodes, but up until the moment it happened we were all SURE it was not going to happen. Why? Because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all know as viewers of TV that main characters (who are also big name actors) don’t get killed. They have “plot armor”. Similarly, when Sansa was grabbed by hooligans during a riot in King’s Landing a few seasons back and they almost raped her, we were _pretty_ sure that she was going to be rescued and not raped, as in fact happened. Why, because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all know as viewers of TV that young and sympathetic main female characters don’t get raped. And this time, up until the very last moment, I’m sure a lot of us thought that Theon was going to throw off his Reek-ness and save her, or that Brienne was going to come barging in, or that Sansa was going to pull a knife out of her sleeve. Why, because the internal logic of the show-universe demanded it? No, because we all “know” as viewers of TV that young and sympathetic main female characters don’t get raped. But we were wrong this time, just like we were wrong about Ned Stark. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/113 "2015-05-19T17:10:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Agreed to all that, **oft wears hats**. > > And it’s “Joffrey.” Got it, it can be a pain keeping all the names straight, but I’m trying. On another note: I’m pretty sure this has been discussed already, but Iron Bank Revolution Loans. So the Iron Bank has loaned a lot of money to King’s Landing, and we know that they don’t have the cash to repay the loans any time soon. They also funded Stannis in the hopes of recouping their losses with the Lannisters, right? I get that Stannis is probably going to be a better financial manager than Robert, Joffrey, Cersei, et al. But how is he going to pay back the Lannisters’ debts on top of his own if the King’s Landing coffers can’t actually cover it? He’s not going to let the people starve just to pay back the loan. Or is the idea that the Iron Bank doubts that the Lannisters will _ever_ clear their debts (or remain in power long enough to do so), so they funded Stannis because they trust him to pay back all of his debt and some of the Lannister debt? And/or that he will actually budget money to gradually pay back the debts over time? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/114 "2015-05-19T17:16:18Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Got it, it can be a pain keeping all the names straight, but I’m trying. > > On another note: I’m pretty sure this has been discussed already, but Iron Bank Revolution Loans. So the Iron Bank has loaned a lot of money to King’s Landing, and we know that they don’t have the cash to repay the loans any time soon. They also funded Stannis in the hopes of recouping their losses with the Lannisters, right? I get that Stannis is probably going to be a better financial manager than Robert, Joffrey, Cersei, et al. But how is he going to pay back the Lannisters’ debts on top of his own if the King’s Landing coffers can’t actually cover it? He’s not going to let the people starve just to pay back the loan. > > Or is the idea that the Iron Bank doubts that the Lannisters will _ever_ clear their debts (or remain in power long enough to do so), so they funded Stannis because they trust him to pay back all of his debt and some of the Lannister debt? And/or that he will actually budget money to gradually pay back the debts over time? Probably the second. Further, the Iron Bank probably sees it as a long-term investment, presuming that at some point Westeros will be a wealthy, functional kingdom once again, and they see helping Stannis as the best way to achieve that. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/115 "2015-05-19T17:34:01Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > When they were talking at the beginning of the season, I assumed that was the big sin [Lansel] was suggesting [Cersei] should ask the gods’ forgiveness for. I assumed it was the incestuous affair they had with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/116 "2015-05-19T17:43:56Z")
If Stannis were to win, any surviving Lannisters would be stripped of their properties and land. Even at post war fire sale prices, there’d have to be a fair bit of money in that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Evil_Prince_Zorte)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/117 "2015-05-19T17:45:03Z")
That’s a good point about the number and armament of Sparrows vs. the actual army of the Tyrells. I can see a conversation with Olenna and the high sparrow next week going something like this- “We will squash your little faction like a bug, and gain the gratitude of the populous for getting rid of the Westeros Taliban. Return Marjorie (and maybe Loras), arrest Cersei instead, and we will allow you to continue so long as you stay out of our way.” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/118 "2015-05-19T19:05:39Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > Got it, it can be a pain keeping all the names straight, but I’m trying. > > On another note: I’m pretty sure this has been discussed already, but Iron Bank Revolution Loans. So the Iron Bank has loaned a lot of money to King’s Landing, and we know that they don’t have the cash to repay the loans any time soon. They also funded Stannis in the hopes of recouping their losses with the Lannisters, right? I get that Stannis is probably going to be a better financial manager than Robert, Joffrey, Cersei, et al. But how is he going to pay back the Lannisters’ debts on top of his own if the King’s Landing coffers can’t actually cover it? He’s not going to let the people starve just to pay back the loan. > > Or is the idea that the Iron Bank doubts that the Lannisters will _ever_ clear their debts (or remain in power long enough to do so), so they funded Stannis because they trust him to pay back all of his debt and some of the Lannister debt? And/or that he will actually budget money to gradually pay back the debts over time? Robert spent money like water and Littlefinger enabled him as master of coin. It was part of his plan to cause chaos to run up large debts with the Iron Bank. Stannis will do whatever it takes to repay the Iron Bank if it means taxing everyone in Westeros into the poorhouse. The bankers don’t think Cersei and Tommen will ever pay back the debt which is why they are backing Stannis. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/119 "2015-05-19T19:10:07Z")
> [@The\_Evil\_Prince\_Zorte](#): > > That’s a good point about the number and armament of Sparrows vs. the actual army of the Tyrells. I can see a conversation with Olenna and the high sparrow next week going something like this- “We will squash your little faction like a bug, and gain the gratitude of the populous for getting rid of the Westeros Taliban. Return Marjorie (and maybe Loras), arrest Cersei instead, and we will allow you to continue so long as you stay out of our way.” It would be the Tyrells versus the Sparrows, the Lannisters and the Gold Cloaks. Now the Sparrows have valuable hostages in Margery and Loras. The best bet would be to try and starve the Lannisters into submission but that would take a while. I think that since Oleana and Littlefinger worked together before she will go to him again and he will take whoever gives him the best offer. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249/120 "2015-05-19T19:21:55Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > It would be the Tyrells versus the Sparrows, the Lannisters and the Gold Cloaks. Now the Sparrows have valuable hostages in Margery and Loras. I agree about the hostages, Sparrows and probably the Gold Cloaks. But the Lannister troops seem to be under Ser Kevan’s hand and last we saw he seemed less than interested in backing his niece’s selfish, power-hungry plots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-06-unbowed-unbent-unbroken-5-17-15/720249.md?page=7)