# Game of Thrones 5.07 "The Gift" 5/24/2015 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 25, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759 "2015-05-25T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/41 "2015-05-25T13:19:39Z")
Sam gets laid and Cersei gets thrown in a dingy cell, and people say this show is too bleak. > [@AK84](#): > > Is the High Sparrow a former Lord? His accent seems to suggest so. One of my favourite fan theories is that he’s Howland Reed, Lord of the Neck and father of Bran’s roadtrip buddies. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/42 "2015-05-25T13:33:52Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Sam gets laid and Cersei gets thrown in a dingy cell, and people say this show is too bleak. > One of my favourite fan theories is that he’s Howland Reed, Lord of the Neck and father of Bran’s roadtrip buddies. This theory not only has few evidences to back it up, but also is based on book hints, which shouldn’t be discussed here. Anyway, I would guess not, since a noble of some importance would presumably have been recognized by someone, given his current position as high septon. We’ve been given no indication about who he might be as far as I remember. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/43 "2015-05-25T13:33:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Shows just how stupid Cersei is. Hell, they’re all dumber than a bag of hammers. Well to be fair to Cersei nobody, including the queen of thorns, thought the high sparrow was for real. As far as Cersei was concerned they were simply trading favors the same way kings landing politics have been done the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/44 "2015-05-25T13:39:26Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t think killing someone that was trying to kidnap the princess would be a big deal. > > I think sparing a fighting, fucking, signing hedonist like Bronn is exactly what a daughter or Oberyn would do. The more I think about it, it was probably just a power play. He said she fought well “for a little girl,” so i think she’s either playing a long con with him (double poison?), or she just wanted him in the palm of her hand for a few seconds. “I could kill you if I wanted, but stroke my ego and I’ll let you go.” The annoyed expressions from the other Sand Snakes supports that theory. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/45 "2015-05-25T13:42:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > This theory not only has few evidences to back it up, but also is based on book hints, which shouldn’t be discussed here. > > Anyway, I would guess not, since a noble of some importance would presumably have been recognized by someone, given his current position as high septon. We’ve been given no indication about who he might be as far as I remember. As I said, it’s just a fan theory on the idea that he is a lord. He does exist in the show continuity, Jojen talks about his loyalty to Eddard IIRC. In the show Olenna presumably would have recognised him, so it is unlikely but still fun to speculate. Speaking of, one wonders what she’s going to do now that Cersei’s been thrown in the stocks too, if she’ll wrangle a way to free Loras and Margaery (whose cell scene was great) while still making Cersei get hoisted by her own petard… ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/46 "2015-05-25T13:46:57Z")
You know, it’s going to be really interesting if/when Stannis and Melisandre make it to King’s Landing. Melisandre versus the High Sparrow! Two religious fanatics from opposing religious traditions who both use violence to solve their problems-- together at last! Which will prevail, an army of fanatics versus crazy fire magic? Stay tuned! My money’s on Melisandre. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/47 "2015-05-25T14:01:14Z")
Yeah, I really like this episode and was extremely disappointed when it ended. My only complaint, as already mentioned, was how stupid Cersei was to go to the HS without guards. When you’re her, you don’t go anywhere without guards. That looks like sloppy writing to me. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/48 "2015-05-25T14:23:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, I really like this episode and was extremely disappointed when it ended. My only complaint, as already mentioned, was how stupid Cersei was to go to the HS without guards. When you’re her, you don’t go anywhere without guards. That looks like sloppy writing to me. Easy to explain in-world, I think – maybe no weapons are allowed inside the little sept, or no guards allowed (and Cersei is arrogant enough to think she’ll be fine), and her need to gloat to Margaery outweighed her sense of self-preservation. It would make sense that no guards/weapons would be allowed when she visited Margaery in the prison, so they might have just been waiting outside in the street for her – and it didn’t seem to me like she was expecting to see the High Sparrow on her way out. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/49 "2015-05-25T14:25:47Z")
Olenna didn’t have her guards during the trial or the meeting with the Sparrow - it would’ve been nice to have a scene where the Sparrows asked that no guards be allowed into their areas because blah blah religious something or other. Having the nobles grudgingly accept going into their buildings without their guards in order to try to stay on good terms with them would explain the lack of guards. Otherwise it’s pretty weak. I’m not too lecherous, but the non-nudity with Danerys is just getting distracting to me. The blocking and angles and having her cover herself as she moves just seems like a soap opera - it’s just so unnatural and distracting. I don’t even see the point - the cat is out of the bag on that one anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/50 "2015-05-25T14:30:04Z")
Wow, those breasts were perfect. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/51 "2015-05-25T14:34:08Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I’m not too lecherous, but the non-nudity with Danerys is just getting distracting to me. The blocking and angles and having her cover herself as she moves just seems like a soap opera - it’s just so unnatural and distracting. I don’t even see the point - the cat is out of the bag on that one anyway. Seriously, if she refuses to get naked then stop having scenes were she should be naked. There is no reason she needs to be in bed every time she talks to Daario. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/52 "2015-05-25T15:03:29Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I’m pretty sure it was the info about Lancel, otherwise her subsequent arrest makes no sense. Lancel joined because of his guilt but that doesn’t mean he told the High Sparrow what had happened. It doesn’t really make sense that Littlefinger gave Olenna the info about Lancel. Lancel was already a sparrow and unless we’re thinking he’s been a secret agent of Littlefingers all along he would have confessed already to the High Septon. The High Septon could have just been waiting for the right time to use the confession from Lancel. My guess is that Littlefinger revealed something more to Olenna, proof that Tommen is a bastard perhaps? He said he had a young man to hand over to Olenna, could that young man have been Gendry? Olenna knew the rumours about the Baratheon children, but hard proof would be a game changer. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/53 "2015-05-25T15:09:27Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Olenna knew the rumours about the Baratheon children, but hard proof would be a game changer. Why? Olenna’s granddaughter is married to Tommen; if Tommen is a bastard, then Margaery isn’t Queen. How would that be a good thing for Olenna? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/54 "2015-05-25T15:47:17Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Why? Olenna’s granddaughter is married to Tommen; if Tommen is a bastard, then Margaery isn’t Queen. How would that be a good thing for Olenna? I don’t know exactly but I’m sure between them Olenna and Littlefinger could make that information work to their advantage. Littlefinger is the one that led Ned to Robert’s bastards in Season 1 and directly to Gendry. And remember creating chaos is Littlefingers method of operation… Tearing down house Lannister completely at this stage is creating maximum chaos. The Tyrell’s are the only house in the south with enough power to step in and restore order. Stannis is still far away and effectively out of the picture. By the time he returned the Tyrell’s could be ruling under their own name instead of as Queen to a Lannister/Baratheon King. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/55 "2015-05-25T15:48:01Z")
I think the " young man" in question is the male whore who implicated Loras to begin with and who we know was working in Littlefinger’s brothel at some point. Littlefinger probably knows where to find him and is willing to hand him over to see if he can be convinced to retract or alter his testimony. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/56 "2015-05-25T15:50:51Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I think the " young man" in question is the male whore who implicated Loras to begin with and who we know was working in Littlefinger’s brothel at some point. Littlefinger probably knows where to find him and is willing to hand him over to see if he can be convinced to retract or alter his testimony. That would fit the “the same thing i gave Cersei” quote perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/57 "2015-05-25T15:57:07Z")
It’s another piece moving episode, but good. I liked it, but I can’t wait for the inevitable fireworks coming in various parts of the kingdom. I especially can’t wait for Ramsay to get what’s coming to him, but frustratingly I don’t know when or if that’ll come, since this is Game of Thrones. > [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > - Theon apparently sold Sansa out, though I’m still hoping that this is all part of a plan of his. Sansa got something sharp (a corkscrew?) so she’s presumably planning on introducing “toys” to Ramsey’s nightly rapes. > > \ > > - Olenna is still working with Baelish, and he gave her some useful information. I think she’s going to invoke the “Mother’s Mercy” to rescue Lorace and Margaery. Olenna is just totally awesome, but it was novel to see her come up against the High Sparrow and have nothing to tempt him with. I think he’s humble and earnest, which makes him a much more dangerous opponent. > > - The last horse finally crosses the finish line WRT The Sparrows. The look on Cersei’s face when she realized that they were turning on her was priceless. I can’t believe she didn’t see that coming. I really hope that Olenna rescues Lorace and Margaery and Cersei just rots there. I don’t think Theon has a plan other than to not get hurt by Ramsay. I do think he’ll eventually snap or something and he’ll help Sansa and/or turn on Ramsay, but I don’t think it’ll be part of a plan. I would think Olenna would want Margaery restored to her position of queen, and I don’t know if relying on “Mother’s Mercy” would result in that. The plan of starving out the city would take too long and probably backfire. Should be interesting to see what she tries. Cersei being thrown in jail was so satisfying. We all saw it coming, ever since she started working with the Sparrows, and especially after they threw Margaery and Loras in jail, but it was still so satisfying. And Margaery and Loras at least have their grandmother working on getting them out, and probably other friends that Olenna can call on. But I don’t know if anyone would care about Cersei being thrown in jail, except for Jaime but he’s in a much nicer jail cell of his own. Tommen would care but I don’t know how much he will be willing to try to do. I guess it depends on who grabs him first to advise/manipulate him. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > WRT Cersei and Tommen’s fate, there is the little matter of the prophecy. Cersei was told she would see all her children take the throne, and that she would see all of them die. So Cersei snuffing it before Tommen’s killed is unlikely (unless GoT breaks the unwritten script law that All Prophecies Must Come To Pass, and they would never do THAT, would they?) > > Of course, Tommen could die in the next episode, and Cersei in the same episode, but afterward, and the prophecy works. Except that her daughter is still alive, and has not taken a throne, and does not seem likely to anytime soon. So either the prophecy gets tossed, or Tommen and Cersei’s storyline has a ways to run. Have there been other prophecies on the show that were told and then shown to come true? I honestly don’t remember any others. Melisandre talks a lot about the prophecies that mean Stannis will be leader but that hasn’t come true yet (if it will). It seems true to GoT for a prophecy not to be followed through because someone died before it could be completed. I don’t think Cersei will necessarily be killed off immediately, but I don’t think we can predict what will happen based on prophecies being told. > [@Garula](#): > > Jorah running out and being a badass was very cool, but how in the world could things have gotten that far in the first place? Hasn’t slavery been very publicly abolished? Okay, maybe if the qualifying matches were held in private, outside the view of any royal officials they could have gotten away with it, but right in plain view of the queen? She hates the fighting pits and has been very adamant that only freemen would participate. She certainly should be smart enough to start the event off with briefly having everyone declare they are fighting of their own free will. And even without that, wouldn’t at least one fighter think to yell out “My queen! I do not wish to fight, that man is keeping me as a slave!” I’m having a hard time suspending disbelief here. > . I’d wondered that too. Maybe if all the other men were from that area, where apparently slavery had been practiced for a while until Daenerys had come along were just used to slavery being practiced and didn’t quite understand their rights. And even if they did, they weren’t exactly in a position to lobby for their rights. Or they could have tried to yell to the Daenerys but been beat or knocked out before they had a chance to, and then punished further later. The pit master did visibly panic when he heard that Daenerys was there, probably if he knew she was coming he would have prepared a bit more to make things look more kosher. I agree that they could have made things clearer, but it wasn’t too hard for me to swallow. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Easy to explain in-world, I think – maybe no weapons are allowed inside the little sept, or no guards allowed (and Cersei is arrogant enough to think she’ll be fine), and her need to gloat to Margaery outweighed her sense of self-preservation. It would make sense that no guards/weapons would be allowed when she visited Margaery in the prison, so they might have just been waiting outside in the street for her – and it didn’t seem to me like she was expecting to see the High Sparrow on her way out. > [@coremelt](#): > > It doesn’t really make sense that Littlefinger gave Olenna the info about Lancel. Lancel was already a sparrow and unless we’re thinking he’s been a secret agent of Littlefingers all along he would have confessed already to the High Septon. The High Septon could have just been waiting for the right time to use the confession from Lancel. > > My guess is that Littlefinger revealed something more to Olenna, proof that Tommen is a bastard perhaps? He said he had a young man to hand over to Olenna, could that young man have been Gendry? > > Olenna knew the rumours about the Baratheon children, but hard proof would be a game changer. Yeah, it could have been Littlefinger told Olenna about Lancel, but it also could have been the High Sparrow waiting for the right time to arrest Cersei. He’s smart enough to not do it immediately after Cersei gave him power, and to wait until he’s powerful enough to arrest her. Littlefinger has so much going on, I can’t even guess what his plan is. If the boy he mentioned wasn’t Lancel, it could be Gendry. Olenna could probably figure a way to get Margaery’s marriage to Tommen declared illegitimate, and marry Margaery to Gendry, but I’m not sure how the people would be with that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/58 "2015-05-25T15:57:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah, I really like this episode and was extremely disappointed when it ended. My only complaint, as already mentioned, was how stupid Cersei was to go to the HS without guards. When you’re her, you don’t go anywhere without guards. That looks like sloppy writing to me. When I think of it, she’s frequently seen with guards around her in the show. I’d no say “almost always”, since I don’t really remember, but it seems common. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/59 "2015-05-25T16:04:22Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > My guess is that Littlefinger revealed something more to Olenna, proof that Tommen is a bastard perhaps? He said he had a young man to hand over to Olenna, could that young man have been Gendry? Oh, yes. I hadn’t thought of that. It seems loke the best guess. However, didn’t he say before : “the same gift I offered Cersei” (not sure I understood correctly). He would have no reason to offer Gendry to Cersei. And when did he do that? Also, Gendry isn’t particularly attractive. Couls he simply refer to having Loras freed? Could he have instructed Loras’ lover to denounce him to the church (rather than doing it spontaneously because he hoped for leniency as I thought) on behalf of Cersei? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/60 "2015-05-25T16:12:27Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > The plan of starving out the city would take too long and probably backfire. Should be interesting to see what she tries. This plan seemed ridiculous to me. How well would be prisonners fed in a starving city? Especially the members of the family responsibile for the starvation? Despite stating she would put the blame on the High Septon, the blame would obviously lie primarily with the Tyrells. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759.md?page=4)