# Game of Thrones 5.07 "The Gift" 5/24/2015 \[Show Discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 25, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759 "2015-05-25T01:11:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/61 "2015-05-25T16:13:43Z")
Cersei had no reason to believe the high sparrow wasn’t in her pocket. Even Olenna thought the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/62 "2015-05-25T16:14:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Have there been other prophecies on the show that were told and then shown to come true? Not sure if you call Bran finding the tree of life or whatever the hell that was as prophecy, but that could count. Another of Bran’s metaphorical prophecies came true - the sea came to winterfell and killed a lot of the people there. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/63 "2015-05-25T16:39:07Z")
Little fingers gift to Olenna will probably be the guy who implicated her grandchildren. Either that guy dies or recants. There will be no case. The case against Cersei is airtight with Lancel. To save herself she will have to throw herself on the mother’s mercy that High Sparrow told her about. That should be interesting. Deus Ex Direwolf - What are the maester’s duties? Communications via crow, obviously. Do they also act as physicians? Besides Sam, is there anyone else who can take over the maester’s duties? WIll the wall send out a request for a new maester? At some point Tyrion will return the favor to the guy who freed him. He always repays his debts. Is Varys still in this show? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/64 "2015-05-25T16:44:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Have there been other prophecies on the show that were told and then shown to come true? I honestly don’t remember any others. Melisandre talks a lot about the prophecies that mean Stannis will be leader but that hasn’t come true yet (if it will). It seems true to GoT for a prophecy not to be followed through because someone died before it could be completed. I don’t think Cersei will necessarily be killed off immediately, but I don’t think we can predict what will happen based on prophecies being told. I was referring more to the general principle in fantasy stories that [all prophecies must come true](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PropheciesAreAlwaysRight). However, given that GoT is willing to break other principles of fantasy writing with impunity, it’s very possible that they’ll break this one too. However however, as someone has already pointed out, other prophecies in the show seem to have come true. Dramatically, the function of a prophecy is to create an expectation in the reader/viewer’s mind (as well as the character’s) about what will happen in the story. Generally, the writer’s cleverness is manifested in how the prophecy does or does not come true. I have come to expect cleverness from the GoT crew. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/65 "2015-05-25T16:45:57Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I think the " young man" in question is the male whore who implicated Loras to begin with and who we know was working in Littlefinger’s brothel at some point. Littlefinger probably knows where to find him and is willing to hand him over to see if he can be convinced to retract or alter his testimony. I’m certain the gift/young man is Lancel. They’ve been setting this up since we first saw him as a sparrow and he wanted Cersei to repent her sins (I’ve found peace in the Seven, you can too). Littlefinger and Varys were probably the only two who knew Cersei was seducing Lancel and neither of them has been in Kings Landing lately. In the previously seen segment at the start of this episode, we see Lancel confronting Littlefinger upon his return, and Littlefinger noting that turning his back on the Lannisters is a lot to turn away from (implying not just the family wealth but his own sins while a Lannister). Littlefinger silently suffers the loss of his businesses and Cersei’s threats against Sansa and offers her his “gift” in the form of the witness who testifies against Loras and Margery in order to strengthen his position in the Vale and the North. He then offers the same gift by telling Olleana about another young man (Lancel) who will testify against Cersei and her far more serious crimes (adultery, regicide). I think Lancel is still in love with Cersei and had not confessed upon converting but the High Sparrow gets it out of him at this point. Then it’s easy enough to lure Cersei in without guards for a chance to gloat over Margery and then have her led to the ancient chamber and confront her. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Burden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/958977/32.png) [@Jack\_Burden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Burden)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/66 "2015-05-25T16:54:49Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No Arya this week ☹ I found this particularly disappointing. I was certain the episode title would refer to Arya offering the Nameless God’s gift to her first assignment for the Faceless Men. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/67 "2015-05-25T17:04:07Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Is Varys still in this show? Last seen in Volantis, before Jorah kidnapped Tyrion. I expect he will make his way to Mereen and reenter the Dany story. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/68 "2015-05-25T17:11:46Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I was referring more to the general principle in fantasy stories that [all prophecies must come true](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PropheciesAreAlwaysRight). However, given that GoT is willing to break other principles of fantasy writing with impunity, it’s very possible that they’ll break this one too. However however, as someone has already pointed out, other prophecies in the show seem to have come true. > > Dramatically, the function of a prophecy is to create an expectation in the reader/viewer’s mind (as well as the character’s) about what will happen in the story. Generally, the writer’s cleverness is manifested in how the prophecy does or does not come true. I have come to expect cleverness from the GoT crew. It was prophesied that Dany and Drogo’s child would be the “Stallion Who Mounts the World.” That prophecy didn’t come true. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/69 "2015-05-25T17:29:55Z")
> [@SecretaryofEvil](#): > > It was prophesied that Dany and Drogo’s child would be the “Stallion Who Mounts the World.” That prophecy didn’t come true. A stallion is a horse, something you ride. Is Dany mother to something you can ride that will bleep the world, and scare everyone? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/70 "2015-05-25T17:56:41Z")
In the light of the day it seems to me that the gift to Olenna is Olyver (“same gift I gave to Cersei”). If he dies or recants the case against Loras goes away. And when the witch told Cersei that her kids would wear a “crown of gold” I figured she referred to their blond hair (they shouldn’t all be blond, considering what we know about Baratheon sprogs. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/71 "2015-05-25T18:16:56Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > > Did Theon sell Sansa out? Ramsey was already up in the tower. I thought he had found out some other way. Or was that not the tower? > > I think we were led to believe Theon was climbing up the old tower while in fact he was climbing up the tower where Ramsay resides. I assumed what happened was that the old woman (who told Sansa, “The North remembers”) gave up the information about lighting a candle in the highest tower when Ramsay tortured her. IOW, that Theon didn’t betray Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/72 "2015-05-25T18:21:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I assumed what happened was that the old woman (who told Sansa, “The North remembers”) gave up the information about lighting a candle in the highest tower when Ramsay tortured her. IOW, that Theon didn’t betray Sansa. Ramsay wouldn’t have tortured the old woman if Theon hadn’t ratted out Sansa. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/73 "2015-05-25T19:04:33Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Cersei had no reason to believe the high sparrow wasn’t in her pocket. Even Olenna thought the same thing. Olenna rightly believed that Cersei was at least indirectly behind the Sparrows’ actions. Cersei armed a faith militant and gave them no oversight and didn’t stop to consider that this might turn around to bite her in the ass, _despite knowing that a relative she used to bone is a member of the same order_. Olenna made a valid assumption based on her observations. Cersei unleashed a rabid dog and thought “what’s the worst that could happen?” ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/74 "2015-05-25T19:17:11Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I don’t get why the sand snake girl would save Bron like that. What’s in it for her.?..(snip) I got the impression that she was attracted to him. I would not be shocked to see them get together. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/75 "2015-05-25T20:41:39Z")
So… since there’s a snow storm south of the wall, does that mean “Winter is here?” Also does Brienne just hang around outside looking at the tower window? I expected what Ramsey was going to show Sansa was a captured Brienne and Podrick. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/76 "2015-05-25T20:54:48Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > So… since there’s a snow storm south of the wall, does that mean “Winter is here?” > Also does Brienne just hang around outside looking at the tower window? > > I expected what Ramsey was going to show Sansa was a captured Brienne and Podrick. Yeah, lighting the candle and setting a trap seemed like the obvious course of action there. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/77 "2015-05-25T21:22:20Z")
How far would a single candle be visible? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/78 "2015-05-25T22:16:59Z")
[10-30 Miles.](http://heimhenge.com/skylights/2014/05/19/qa-the-distance-from-which-a-candle-can-be-seen/) That’s what a quick Google turned up, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/79 "2015-05-25T22:25:21Z")
Okay Gilly is being threatened by Crows, and Sam is down. All of a sudden Ghost shows up, bares fangs and suggests that crows have better places to be. Afterwards, Gilly admonishes Sam, that he should walk away, should it happen again. Cue A little Sally on the side. Now everyone seems to think thats just Gilly being pessimistically practical, and that while she is thinking of England, Sam should not put himself at risk, just to save her honor. Probably has happened lots of times with her Dad, she is used to it. My way of thinking is that she is either a warg, or something like it. She called Ghost to protect her, and can do it again, hence her memo to Sam. Now I can see Ghost, just tooling about the castle, when ever he wants and Sam and Gilly are masters freinds being threatened, but I am putting money on Gilly having special affinity with animals. Declan ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759/80 "2015-05-25T22:37:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Seriously, if she refuses to get naked then stop having scenes were she should be naked. There is no reason she needs to be in bed every time she talks to Daario. This. I’m perfectly OK with not seeing her naked again. But they could have had that conversation over a meal or something instead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-07-the-gift-5-24-2015-show-discussion/720759.md?page=5)