# Game of Thrones 5.08 "Hardhome" 5/31/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309 "2015-06-01T02:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/201 "2015-06-03T02:25:50Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > And of course regardless of whether it was incest by Westeros custom, it was _certainly_ adultery. Even if first cousins got a pass she’d still have to deal with that charge. No it wasn’t, King Robert was long dead by the time we saw Cersei sleeping with Lancel. She didn’t start sleeping with him until after Jamie got captured, which happened during the war. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/202 "2015-06-03T02:41:50Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Speaking of the necromancy magic, I remember something from S2 about the dragons waking up introduced more magic into the world. Or maybe it’s that magic is returning, so the dragons could wake up more easily. I wonder if all magic things push each other into a positive feedback loop, or if there’s some independent cycle, maybe related to the winters. I don’t know if this is what you are referring to, but the warlock in Qarth said something like the dragons being born allowed their magic to be born again, too, and that their magic was strongest in the dragon’s presence. And that the dragons were strongest in Daenerys’ presence. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/203 "2015-06-03T03:26:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No it wasn’t, King Robert was long dead by the time we saw Cersei sleeping with Lancel. She didn’t start sleeping with him until after Jamie got captured, which happened during the war. Hmm…I had kinda assumed it was an ongoing thing hence her whole manipulation with the wine, but perhaps you are correct. Okay, one less charge :). ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/204 "2015-06-03T07:52:48Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > No it wasn’t, King Robert was long dead by the time we saw Cersei sleeping with Lancel. She didn’t start sleeping with him until after Jamie got captured, which happened during the war. That would depend on the exact legal definition of adultery used, Cersei and Lancel weren’t married so it is still possible that it was adultery in the eyes of the Faith even if neither one was cheating on someone. But the charge is certainly nowhere near as serious as it would have been if Robert had still been alive. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/205 "2015-06-03T09:20:27Z")
If Lancel has confessed to conspiring with Cersei to get Robert as drunk as possible in the hope that it would lead to a fatal hunting accident, then surely that’s murder. I mean, maybe you could plead it down to manslaughter, but it’s still far worse than mere fornication. It’s never been stated for sure whether the wine was drugged to increase its potency, but if it was, that’s a pretty big sin as well as a very serious crime. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/206 "2015-06-03T09:22:24Z")
tbh, I don’t like this ‘Faith’ and ‘Faceless’ business. Imo, it bogs the whole thing down in ridiculous explanations/justifications that they pull out their arse. Too much dumb exposition bordering on deus ex machina. Having said that, this was an all-timer; a top 3 episode. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/207 "2015-06-03T12:56:06Z")
Did they kill the Bran Stark storyline or what? There’s two episodes left and they haven’t had a scene with him in it yet. Not that I mind, I didn’t really like his storyline anyway. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/208 "2015-06-03T12:56:44Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > There is a Wiki Article on what Hardhome is - or was. But, I don’t recall it being mentioned in the show. And regardless, it doesn’t mention the fence or it’s relevance. > > I appreciate the explanations and the picture. > > And while the fence still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me in a logistical or defense role, it does a great job of creating a bottle neck to make the battle last longer and build suspense. So, I’m going to assume that is it’s primary purpose! Probably, but otherwise, I assume the fence was there to protect the village from small raids by widlings (or _other_ widlings if it’s a wildling village to begin with), not to repulse a major attack by anybody sufficiently organized to gather a significant army, or a fleet. Given the small size of the village, I didn’t find surprising that the defense works were minimal. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/209 "2015-06-03T13:00:13Z")
Maybe there’s obsidian involved in the creation of Valyrian steel, that nobody knows how to make anymore. Since Valyria was (unfortunately for them) in a volcanic region. Not sure that there’s any way to include minerals like that in metal, at least without it seriously compromising the quality of the weapon, but that’s a magical universe and all. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/210 "2015-06-03T13:13:41Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Did they kill the Bran Stark storyline or what? There’s two episodes left and they haven’t had a scene with him in it yet. Not that I mind, I didn’t really like his storyline anyway. Hodor! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/211 "2015-06-03T13:22:37Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > It is certainly possible, but it begs the question of why use the dragon to make weapons to fight the walkers when you can use the dragons to directly breathe fire on them from above. First there are more people able to wield a sword than dragons. But also, it never has been stated that Valyrian steel weapons were made to fight the WW. It’s in itself considered a very superior metal for weapons used in regular wars. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/212 "2015-06-03T13:35:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > [FONT=“Arial Black”]J > > I’m sure that the writers appreciate the fans’ attempts to explain plot developments that make little sense, but: this really does make little sense. > > As previously mentioned in the thread, if an insurance provider fails to pay on legitimate claims, word would spread and he would soon be out of business. Why hire the Faceless Men in that case? Pure vindictiveness? Is that what the FM exist to deliver? > > And if the woman-who-hired-the-Faceless-Men’s husband had been trying to cheat the insurance-provider, who rightfully denied the claim, then the Faceless Men would be killing an honest businessman. Are the FM merely assassins-for-hire? Why, then, all the religious trappings and ritual? > > It’s all rather fuzzy and not well thought-out. My guess was that he cheated her in a perfectly legal and contractual way but unjustly from a moral point of view. Something that happens all the time in the real world. Also, indeed, it needs to be proven that they only kill people who deserved it. Maybe the woman saying “he cheated me, I want him dead” was enough for them to act. It being religious doesn’t mean everything they do is just and fair. Look at the red god, who’s supposed to be the good guy according to Melisandre. Or at the Sparrows. And their worship death personified, apparently. Death comes for everybody, good or bad. I tend to believe, however, that they are ultimate dispenser of justice after everything else failed. However, the point raised befrore that Jaqu’en didn’t care about who Arya named is very valid. It happened that they were bad guys, but what if she had named some good people for whatever reason? Unless we assume he could judge Arya well enough to know she would only name people who had it coming. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/213 "2015-06-03T14:16:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I don’t think it was that Tywin, as regent, had authority over Joffrey. Just that Joffrey obeyed his grandfather. Not hard to imagine, given Tywin’s forceful personality. (And remind me; wasn’t the order to behead Ned Stark before Tywin showed up?) It doesn’t seem to me that rules are closely abided by in Westeros. They seem to exist in theory but in almost every instance, they’re twisted or ignored. In this case it seems to me that Joffrey wasn’t able to make serious decisions simply because everybody was obeying Tywin, who was considered by all as the actual holder of power. It was made clear many times by Tywin to Joffrey that he wasn’t in charge (when he sent him to bed, or told him that the meeting of the council would take place in Tywin’s appartments, for instance). And despite some unusual characters (Ned Stark, Stannis, Brienne, the High Sparrow…) we see at every turn that the rule of law is generally ignored and that might makes right in almost all circumstances. For instance, when Ned’s son gather his bannermen, they don’t say “of course we’re going to fight for our legitimate lord”. They say something like “why should we follow a kid in this adventure?”. Tywin has money, soldiers, faithful followers, influence, etc…so people obey him. Joffrey (or Tommen) doesn’t, so they don’t. The setting of the serie looks like late middle-ages, but the overall mindset seems more similar to the high middle ages to me (very independant lords, importance of personal relationships and clientele, etc…) You don’t go anywhere saying “the law says so”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/214 "2015-06-03T14:20:20Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > …So far as I can tell, Jaqen is just one of many Faceless Men, distinguished mostly by the fact that he’s taken an interest in Arya. Then again, do we even have any way of knowing that this Jaqen is the same Jaqen she met in Westeros, and not another one wearing the same face? No, we don’t know. Could be, but we may never know for sure. I’m just glad to have that actor back. “A man is very good in the role.” ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/215 "2015-06-03T14:23:15Z")
The idea that customer feedback would prevent all shady dealings is readily contradicted by the real world. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/216 "2015-06-03T15:32:37Z")
So suggestions for a couple name for Tyrion and Daenarys? Daenyrion or Tyrnarys seem to work best. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/217 "2015-06-03T15:36:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > So suggestions for a couple name for Tyrion and Daenarys? > > Daenyrion or Tyrnarys seem to work best. The Impire! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/218 "2015-06-03T16:10:30Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Did they kill the Bran Stark storyline or what? There’s two episodes left and they haven’t had a scene with him in it yet. Not that I mind, I didn’t really like his storyline anyway. Bran’s story caught up to the books last season so my understanding is his story is on hold this season. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/219 "2015-06-03T17:20:44Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > amazing the WWs just showed up when Snow and the other guys from the watch were visiting. 🙂 Maybe they can sense the obsidian weapons arriving and attacked before they could be used? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/220 "2015-06-03T17:26:56Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > The Impire! They could be the (plural) Imperatrix. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=12)