# Game of Thrones 5.08 "Hardhome" 5/31/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309 "2015-06-01T02:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Neverending\_Elbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e274bd/32.png) [@Neverending\_Elbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neverending_Elbow)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/41 "2015-06-01T13:58:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > **DigitalC** linked to a video of that swordfight a few posts back. And Sam said something about knowing Jon for years. Someone last week also said something indicating that years have passed since the show started. Anyone have any idea of just how much time is supposed to have passed? Well, in the first episode of the series, when the two families were agreeing to bethrothe Sansa to Joffrey, Sansa said she was 13. On her wedding night with Tyrion, when asked about her age, she said she was 14. She may be 15 now, unless time sped up and more time passed between seasons. Around two years, then? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/42 "2015-06-01T13:59:59Z")
Interesting that Great-Uncle Bevan refused to see Cersei. The AV Club newbie write-up pointed out that Lancel is Bevan’s son, and that perhaps Lancel was acting at his father’s behest. So perhaps this was Bevan’s way of eliminating competition from Tywin’s family? And the list of crimes mentioned by the Sparrow included incest, so is Tommen’s legitimacy going to come under question? ---
**Author:** ![Neverending\_Elbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e274bd/32.png) [@Neverending\_Elbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neverending_Elbow)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/43 "2015-06-01T14:02:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And the list of crimes mentioned by the Sparrow included incest, so is Tommen’s legitimacy going to come under question? Maybe Lancel being Cersei’s first cousin is enough for that accusation? Edit: It’s [Kevan](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0305013/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t88). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/44 "2015-06-01T14:05:34Z")
Nitpick: Kevan Lannister. And he’s Tywin’s brother, making him Cersei’s uncle, not great-uncle. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/45 "2015-06-01T15:31:24Z")
> [@"Yankee Words"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yankee-words/94339/2): > > 1. I thought they already established that wights could only be killed by fire? It seemed like they were putting a lot of them down with conventional stabbing. I thought the wight walkers could be killed by fire, but the one Jon was fighting was awfully cavalier about walking around the building that was on fire. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/46 "2015-06-01T15:31:52Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Nitpick: Kevan Lannister. And he’s Tywin’s brother, making him Cersei’s uncle, not great-uncle. Yes, but he’s **double** great uncle to Tommen 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/47 "2015-06-01T15:35:07Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I thought the wight walkers could be killed by fire, but the one Jon was fighting was awfully cavalier about walking around the building that was on fire. The Wights are the zombies. The White Walkers are their bosses, basically. Different things, with confusingly similar names. Wights are flammable, we don’t know if White Walkers are. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/48 "2015-06-01T15:42:17Z")
ETA beyond time limit: The one Jon killed with his Valyrian Steel sword was a White Walker. So we know fire kills Wights, and Dragon Glass & Valyrian Steel kill White Walkers. All else is speculation at this point. Or spoilers. ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/49 "2015-06-01T15:47:15Z")
Really fun episode and my favorite part was Dany cutting off Tyrion’s drinking. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/50 "2015-06-01T15:54:12Z")
My take on what we have seen on the show is that the White Walkers turn people into wights or zombies but they turn infants into other White Walkers. Granted we could find out later that they can turn older humans into more WW’s but it seems to me if they were capable of that they would do it more often because the WW’s are stronger and more indestructible. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/51 "2015-06-01T16:09:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > 1. I thought they already established that wights could only be killed by fire? It seemed like they were putting a lot of them down with conventional stabbing. I think it was established that burning corpses prevents them from becoming wights, not necessarily that it’s the only thing that kills them. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/52 "2015-06-01T16:13:38Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > I think it was established that burning corpses prevents them from becoming wights, not necessarily that it’s the only thing that kills them. Jon stabbed the shit out of one in season 1 with no ill effects shown by the wight. Probably a continuity error, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/53 "2015-06-01T16:18:19Z")
Great episode. A very effective sense of impending doom in Hardhome, and a very well-done battle scene at the end. I’ve been missing that all season. Everyone has been asking why it was taking so long for the frozen bad guys to show up again… well, here they are! Creepy kids, too. Brrrrr. I liked seeing Arya on the Braavosi wharves, selling her oysters. Nicely done. Was the thin man a ship insurer? Why wouldn’t he take the account of the captain who’d had so many successful cruises - did he figure the guy was maybe overdue for trouble? Nice for Sansa to know two of her brothers maybe aren’t dead after all (they got better). And what’s Ramsay’s plan with just 20 horsemen? Hmmm. > [@Quimby](#): > > …One question, did anyone else get a weird vibe from the hooded figure who was in Jon Snow’s boat in the end? I thought for sure it was going to be revealed as a stow away White Walker. I wondered that, too. The person at the tiller just sat there. And the men at the oars should _keep rowing_, dammit! I almost expected the boss WW to silently order all of his minions to swim after the boats. Anyone notice the seas getting quite choppy around Jon’s fleet? The waters were calm when he arrived. > [@Gothic](#): > > Really fun episode and my favorite part was Dany cutting off Tyrion’s drinking. Heh. “…while you can still form complete sentences.” Just two episodes to go… ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/54 "2015-06-01T16:20:00Z")
Somebody needs to start making some wildfire hand grenades containing crushed dragon glass. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/55 "2015-06-01T16:23:45Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Jon stabbed the shit out of one in season 1 with no ill effects shown by the wight. Probably a continuity error, IMO. I think it may have been deliberate. This episode, we were shown wights being “killed” by head shots (mostly arrows) or massive damage/dismemberment (mostly axes and size 100 boots). Even then, it’s possible that many of the ones that went down were still animate, but not able to fight effectively, and not shown. IIRC, when Jon fought that one at Castle Black, he stabbed it, but didn’t hack it into pieces. These wights were not as “meaty” as that relatively fresh one was, so they are probably easier to chop up like firewood. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/56 "2015-06-01T16:26:27Z")
This is going to sound like a really stupid question, but here goes: How may different types of “being” were there in that crazy army? I get that there were White Walkers and Zombies (or whatever they are), but there seemed to be some “regular folk” as well. Or were they just in the early phase of being Zombies or WWs? The battle scene was a bit confusing, at least for me. What is the relationship between the zombies and the WWs? Do the zombies get killed (ala _Walking Dead_) if you shoot them in the head or rip their heads off? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/57 "2015-06-01T16:28:39Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Somebody needs to start making some wildfire hand grenades containing crushed dragon glass. Dragonglass arrowheads might also be useful. That White Walker at the end was just standing there on the beach. A good shot with a bow could have taken him out. They really need to scour the countryside for as much dragonglass as they can find. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/58 "2015-06-01T16:30:49Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > I think it was established that burning corpses prevents them from becoming wights, not necessarily that it’s the only thing that kills them. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Jon stabbed the shit out of one in season 1 with no ill effects shown by the wight. Probably a continuity error, IMO. What continuity error? We saw in this episode that Wights could get arrows through the head with no ill effects, so the traditional zombie head-shot kill does not work on Wights. We saw, in (as I recall it) Jon’s first fight with Wights, that cut-off body parts will keep on trying to attack. It’s been pretty clearly established that fire is the best way to kill Wights, and - apart from being stomped to dust by a giant - may be the _only_ thing thing that effectively kills Wights. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/59 "2015-06-01T16:30:50Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > I think it may have been deliberate. > > This episode, we were shown wights being “killed” by head shots (mostly arrows) or massive damage/dismemberment (mostly axes and size 100 boots). Even then, it’s possible that many of the ones that went down were still animate, but not able to fight effectively, and not shown. > > IIRC, when Jon fought that one at Castle Black, he stabbed it, but didn’t hack it into pieces. These wights were not as “meaty” as that relatively fresh one was, so they are probably easier to chop up like firewood. I thought it might be that you can incapacitate a wight with headshots and body damage but the Snow Miser can just reform them with magicks unless you burn them. That added to the horror of the last scene for me–not only had they lost all those people but it was all for nothing as they only strengthened the army of the dead. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/60 "2015-06-01T16:34:24Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I thought it might be that you can incapacitate a wight with headshots and body damage but the Snow Miser can just reform them with magicks unless you burn them. That added to the horror of the last scene for me–not only had they lost all those people but it was all for nothing as they only strengthened the army of the dead. Totally. Rendering them to very small pieces or ash seems to be the the only permanent fix. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=4)