# Game of Thrones 5.08 "Hardhome" 5/31/15 \[Show discussion\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309 "2015-06-01T02:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/121 "2015-06-02T01:31:14Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I imagined the finale battle at the wall and one of the smaller dragons sweeping low by the wall torching wights, then a horde of them leap off the wall onto the dragon’s back and take it down. A dragon riding Dany tearfully commands Drogon to torch the remains before it can reanimate. I wrote this in a past thread but it looks to me this series is building to an ending where Dany and her dragons save Westeros from the White Walkers. I envision the Wall will collapse as a part of the finale battle but since presumably the White Walkers would all be dead and the Wildlings are now allies that would be okay. The bonus is it would mean they would no longer need the Night’s Watch so Jon Snow would be free from his vow (and Sam!). ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/122 "2015-06-02T01:47:02Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Aren’t we saying the same thing? They’re both undead aren’t they? The difference is the Night King isn’t resurrecting something killed but enchanting something that is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/123 "2015-06-02T01:48:20Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Aren’t we saying the same thing? They’re both undead aren’t they? They are not the same thing, a zombie is a reanimated human, a white walker is an entirely different race. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/124 "2015-06-02T02:20:44Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Aren’t we saying the same thing? They’re both undead aren’t they? It’s clear that the White Walkers are very different from the Wights. The show doesn’t refer to either of them as “zombies,” but it seems clear that the Wights are more like what we consider zombies to be—mindless undead minions. The White Walkers are definitely supernatural. It’s not explicitly clear that they’re actually _undead_. They have certain supernatural powers and abilities and are able to plan and execute strategies. The Wights just mindlessly follow orders. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/125 "2015-06-02T02:46:59Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > amazing the WWs just showed up when Snow and the other guys from the watch were visiting. 🙂 It’s not made explicit, but I think it’s implied that the Walkers had been keeping an eye on Hardhome. (Aside: I wonder if they can see “through” the wights, or if they actually need to post a Walker to keep watch.) When they saw the Wildlings were evacuating, they moved in. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/126 "2015-06-02T02:54:36Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG > > That said, I’m disappointed the Faith has to resort to torture to get people to confess. Surely there’s something in their little book that says that’s not kosher. If that’s torture than Cersei is getting some of the mildest torture in Westeros. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Nice fantasy, but given that White Walkers explode on contact with dragon glass, I’m thinking that actual dragons are going to be even more lethal to them. I kind of assumed that at some point Danerys and her dragon kids are going to wind up fire-hosing the White Walkers and their army in a big way. Agreed, that’s where the series is going, but there’s still along way to go before we get there. Daenerys as to learn how to ride & control her dragons first, plus find 2 other riders. > [@JSexton](#): > > Presumably there are terms and conditions of the contract, just like insurance here. We only heard her side of the story, and secondhand at that. Perhaps the Gambler has reason to believe that the captain scuttled his own (worn-out and empty) ship for the insurance money, collecting payment for his cargo twice, and is refusing to pay out for that reason? I wonder if Braavos has some kind of legal system, or does everyone just take matters into their own hands or turn to the Cult of the Many Faced God? It seems like a merchant city like that would have some body of commercial law. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/127 "2015-06-02T03:27:01Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > …It made for a cool shot, which always trumps physics or common sense… > **[Rule of Cool - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)** > > The limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for a given element is directly proportional to its awesomeness. Stated another way, all but the most pedantic of viewers will forgive liberties with reality as long as the result is wicked sweet … > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Perhaps if the head White Walker (what someone upthread called the Night’s King, although I don’t know where that name comes from) is killed, all of the wights and zombies drop dead immediately, since they’re only animated using his magic. > **[Keystone Army - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KeystoneArmy)** > > A Keystone Army is an invasion force or army that's seemingly unstoppable...except for one particular weakness in the form of a well-protected but very fragile component. It can be an individual soldier, an object, or whatever, but if you destroy … > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Just gotta say I love the nickname for Jon Snow - King Crow Yes - and how even Dolorous Edd, usually so phlegmatic, starts to really lose his shit when the wights come cascading over the hillside. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/128 "2015-06-02T04:43:12Z")
I thought the penultimate episode of each season was supposed to be the actiony one. When the WW shattered Jon’s sword he could’ve stabbed Jon like he did the other wilding dude, but he was polite and just hit him with the handle. That plot armor. I liked the shots of the WW on their horses watching from the cliffs. Creepy. The WW/Wight dynamic is like every caster/melee enemy combo from every action/RPG ever – caster resurrects/heals, so you gotta take them out first. Good thing they don’t have ranged attackers too. If I was at the wall I’d be ordering up a couple hundred jars of wild fire about now. Other than being a puss, is there any particular reason King Tommen doesn’t declare war on the Sparrows and wreck them? Are they actually popular and he’s worried about a backlash? They seem like a “no fun allowed” bunch which would wear out their welcome fast, but maybe the commoners like seeing the high born brought down. I’m just not sure if Tommen is one to be worried about nuances like that. I thought he was ready to drop the hammer for his wife until his mom told him to slow his roll. But now? He’s really gonna mope and let them go to trial? ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/129 "2015-06-02T06:15:26Z")
As bad a day as it was for the realms of men, I’m feeling a little uneasy for Sam. Olly clearly had a hard time trusting the plan with the Wildlings. His scene with Sam made me think he had poisoned Sams food. Olly showed up with the food on his own, he gave the tray a quick glance once or twice, he seemed to be heartened by Sam telling him that sometimes a man has to make hard choices that seem wrong but you know are right in the end. And Sam was so Sam in that scene, so earnest and trying to be so comforting to Olly, that unfortunately it would be perfect timing. Hope I’m wrong, though. Is a world without Sam a world we want to live in? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/130 "2015-06-02T06:27:47Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Other than being a puss, is there any particular reason King Tommen doesn’t declare war on the Sparrows and wreck them? Are they actually popular and he’s worried about a backlash? They seem like a “no fun allowed” bunch which would wear out their welcome fast, but maybe the commoners like seeing the high born brought down. I’m just not sure if Tommen is one to be worried about nuances like that. I thought he was ready to drop the hammer for his wife until his mom told him to slow his roll. But now? He’s really gonna mope and let them go to trial? Tommen is, at least, smart enough to realise that he’s completely out of his depth. That’s why he has called on Uncle Kevan to be his Hand. ETA: Given that Kevan sees that Cersei is a nasty piece of work, I expect he’ll strongly advise Tommen to leave her to the Sparrows. At this point, her only choice will be to confess and throw herself on the mercy of the Mother, as advised by Qyburn, which should make entertaining viewing. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/131 "2015-06-02T06:59:52Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > As bad a day as it was for the realms of men, I’m feeling a little uneasy for Sam. Olly clearly had a hard time trusting the plan with the Wildlings. His scene with Sam made me think he had poisoned Sams food. Olly showed up with the food on his own, he gave the tray a quick glance once or twice, he seemed to be heartened by Sam telling him that sometimes a man has to make hard choices that seem wrong but you know are right in the end. And Sam was so Sam in that scene, so earnest and trying to be so comforting to Olly, that unfortunately it would be perfect timing. > > Hope I’m wrong, though. Is a world without Sam a world we want to live in? I think it’s more likely that Sam’s words are going to come back and bite him in the ass. Olly will “know it’s right” and betray Jon somehow. ---
**Author:** ![RiCu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@RiCu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiCu)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/132 "2015-06-02T07:15:28Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > On the “previously on…” part before the show We don’t get a “previously on…” part here in the UK, just goes straight to theme tune to credits. Means I have to spend a considerable amount of time pausing the show to explain bits to the Mrs. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/133 "2015-06-02T07:52:26Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Are they actually popular and he’s worried about a backlash? They seem like a “no fun allowed” bunch which would wear out their welcome fast, but maybe the commoners like seeing the high born brought down. They’re a “no fun” bunch that feeds, shelters and protects the poor. This during period of unrelenting civil war over half the continent during which, as we saw particularly with Arya and the Hound’s wanderings, the poor are basically being raped, robbed, murdered and brutalized at an appalling rate by anyone who can arm themselves. That’s how extremists gain power and when servile rebellions are launched. The whole countryside is probably an unstable powder keg and the Sparrows are perfectly placed to take advantage. _Particularly_ as they can claim legitimacy through actual royal sanction. Dunno who has the _actual_ upper-hand, but without someone experienced to guide him, poor Tommen is hopelessly out of his depth and I could see him hesitating to start a fight he may not be certain he can win. At least cleanly - remember before Cersei got locked up she warned him in so many words that if he launched a war Margaerey would be one of the first to get killed as a de facto hostage. True or not, I’d guess Tommen probably believes it, credulous little mama’s boy that he is. Now psychotic _Joffrey_ would have been in full “off with their heads” mode, but let’s give poor Tommen credit. He’s failing because he’s young and means well. Joffrey probably would have immediately precipitated a massive bloodbath he might not have walked away from. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/134 "2015-06-02T11:15:40Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > Is a world without Sam a world we want to live in? Considering that a world _with_ Sam is a world I want to sleep in, sure. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/135 "2015-06-02T11:24:17Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > and why are the Free Folk wearing Operation Desert Storm surplus kit? That was my first thought too. As no one was afraid of the freezing water, I fan-wanked it that they are ALL wearing Westeros seal skins, which also explains what they’ve been eating up until now. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/136 "2015-06-02T11:31:13Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Jon’s sword is called Longclaw, ancestral sword of House Mormont. Lord Commander Jeor Mormont gave it to him for saving him from a wight, since his son Jorah the Explorer brought shame upon the House by selling slaves. > > White Walkers do [this](https://youtu.be/ps5iGu7-b4E?t=372) to blades made from ordinary steel. I remembered how he got the sword. I just didn’t remember it was Valyrian steel, and thought that maybe this specific sword might have “special powers” (being the ancestral sword of some northern house). > [@Munch](#): > > On the “previously on…” part before the show started, they made a point to reshow Jon getting his sword, with the dialogue of (basically), “Oh boy, it’s Valyrian steel!” Wel, then , I guess you’re right about the Valyrian steel being the cause. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/137 "2015-06-02T11:34:55Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Aren’t we saying the same thing? They’re both undead aren’t they? I’m not convinced the white walkers qualify as “undead”. They seem to be human born and turned into whatever they are. I view them more as some kind of demons or aliens. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/138 "2015-06-02T11:40:24Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Other than being a puss, is there any particular reason King Tommen doesn’t declare war on the Sparrows and wreck them? Presumably, he’s not in charge anymore (well…never was, actually), his great uncle Kevan is. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/139 "2015-06-02T12:35:58Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I remembered how he got the sword. I just didn’t remember it was Valyrian steel, and thought that maybe this specific sword might have “special powers” (being the ancestral sword of some northern house). > > Wel, then , I guess you’re right about the Valyrian steel being the cause. The key with Valyrian steel is that it’s forged by dragons. Dragonglass is formed by dragon fire on rocks: So I presume dragon fire is the magical component that kills the white walkers, and so I think Dany’s dragons will probably be pretty important in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309/140 "2015-06-02T13:00:36Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > The key with Valyrian steel is that it’s forged by dragons. Dragonglass is formed by dragon fire on rocks: So I presume dragon fire is the magical component that kills the white walkers, and so I think Dany’s dragons will probably be pretty important in the future. Do we know that either of those are true? Stannis says dragon glass is just obsidian which is volcanic in origin, not dragon based. Valyrian steel was created by the Valyrians, and they also raised dragons, but we don’t know that they used the dragon flame to forge the blade. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-5-31-15-show-discussion/721309.md?page=8)